Budget Committee - May 21, 2025   5/21/2025

Our discussion item for today, it's about our overtime and vacancy reporting.

I do want to just say right off the bat, you'll kind of see that we've shifted topics around for our committee here.

Chloe and I were doing our best to always make sure we get speakers ahead of time and also making a call on do we need more time for a certain topic before bringing it in front of the committee.

And so I know that right now is a really busy time for our departments.

They're preparing for the budget address and so

just wanted to ask for your continued flexibility as we move topics around and I'm really excited for our topic today.

There's been a lot of preparation done behind it for overtime and vacancy reporting just for context.

This was a really big hot topic that came up especially in our last budget season last year and we made it really clear that having regular reporting on

these two topics was something that was really important to the Council and there has been interest in making sure that we get it into our administrative code as well.

I think there are many benefits to that and our Director Jay Wilmes will be covering that today.

I want to start off by saying that for today's presentation the goal is to understand how the City Council can have reporting as part of our code to help us make informed decisions on the budget

I want to be really clear that today's presentation and discussion does not include a final ordinance language.

You'll see in front of us that there is drafted language here that was worked on.

We will not be voting on it today.

After this discussion, though, we will continue to get department feedback and amendments from departments, but also from all of you too.

Some of this might look really familiar because Paul had already circled it around, especially the template that we had around the overtime reporting.

And so we also sent it out yesterday, and this is really a space for us to have more discussion about it.

I want to say thank you for all of your hard work on this and making sure that

We're incorporating feedback and input from the Council here, and that language really reflects the reason why we even feel this is a significant topic to us in the first place.

Also, thank you to Paul, you, and our city attorney, Teresa, a start-up for all of your guidance on this.

All right.

Thank you, Chair Yang and Council Members.

Thank you for having me here today.

So as discussed, I'm here today to walk you all through a draft ordinance proposal.

So we'll just jump right in.

So here's an overview of the presentation.

We're going to briefly discuss the draft ordinance, which has been included as an attachment online and is also available with copies here in the chambers.

And then we're going to go through the legal authority for the ordinance.

That's where I make the attorneys squirm.

I'm not an attorney, but we'll cover that in more detail as we go through in terms of the charter authority.

And then the third part is where we go over, or I provide a summary of the reporting requirements.

So the first one, a quarterly vacancy report, and then the second one, a quarterly public safety overtime report.

so beginning with the ordinance overview so at a high level what this does is requires reporting by amending the administrative code by adding a new chapter 15 so chapters 1 through 14 really outline and establish the departments the operations procedures within it this would add a new chapter within the administrative code under title 1

and you know backing up what is the administration administrative code in the first place it's basically the operating manual of the city it operationalizes the charter charter sets the foundation the administration administrative code sets really a high level governance framework that then

the Mayor and the Administration operate within.

So it includes procedures, reporting requirements, and also organizational structures.

So this is different from the Legislative Code, which often we deal with as it relates to public and external.

So the Administrative Code is really internal, the Legislative Code is external.

And as we'll see, the legal basis for this, as outlined in the draft, is really detailed in the whereas clauses.

You'll find in lines 7 through 15.

And so the first one is section 4.01, which outlines the council's legislative authority.

The second one indicates that administrative actions require an ordinance, so basically defining that any

rules around administrative actions that are set forth legislatively require an ordinance to be effective.

Section 6.12 states that all ordinances must be codified in the administrative code.

And then Section 11.01 is separate.

That's within the chapter on taxation.

It really establishes Council's broad financial oversight authority within the city.

more detailed language is actually included in the ordinance or in the whereas clauses and then as I mentioned earlier I really want to highlight that this is draft legislation so it's not yet been introduced this is for discussion purposes and it is pending CAO's legal review again as mentioned I'm not an attorney so you know this is the way the you know the foundation is outlined for our ability to do this but again

CAO has final say over these matters.

So section 1 is really the whereas clauses of the language, detailed in lines 7 through 30.

And then section 2 is the summary or the ordinance language.

And that's on page 2, beginning on section 35.

So the first one is a new section within chapter 15, 15.01, which establishes budgetary reporting requirements for personnel vacancies.

The implementation timeline would occur throughout the remainder of this year and begin on January 1, 2026 The department would be Human Resources

And it covers full-time, budgeted, non-appointment, non-temporary roles.

So by that we mean full-time position, FTE 1.0 budgeted, there's actually a budget amount associated with the role, non-appointment, it's not an appointed role, and then non-temporary, non-seasonal.

does not include seasonal public works employees or seasonal parks and recreation employees or any of the other temporary roles within the city.

And then as you will see in lines 41 through 44 those cover the elements of the report so to speak.

and then 45 to 46 covers how it must be submitted to the mayor and council and then posted publicly.

For the next report, so section 15.02, again, similar implementation timeline.

This, however, would be prepared by the public safety departments of police and fire and safety services.

And then the reporting elements are also following a similar format and outlined on lines 53 to 62.

It covers average overtime by role.

Certain roles are spelled out for that.

of the report.

and then it also asks the departments to go into any notable increases, decreases, could be event related and then any seasonal patterns that the council should be aware of.

And then finally, it asks for a budget to actual comparison.

Again, similar to the prior report or the earlier report discussed, it would be submitted to the mayor and council and then posted publicly.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Yang, and thank you, Director Wilmes.

For the section about the overtime for the police budget, I don't know if it's necessary to get this detailed in what's written into the ordinance, but what I remember from the budget last year was that there were

that were not actually filled positions and it was my understanding that that money was used to pay overtime and so if we're getting these overtime reports, if there's a way to capture that as well because that's several million dollars and I don't know again how detailed we should be in this language but there were just so many parts to how the police department was utilizing their money to pay for overtime.

besides what was just specifically maybe budgeted or in a particular line item.

Thank you, Chair Yang and Council Member Jones.

I appreciate being able to see this.

I did get a chance to review this yesterday when we received it, so thank you for getting that out to us prior to today's meeting.

My first question for you is, I guess, what role, if at any, I'm assuming the Office of Financial Services is heavily involved in this process with the departments.

I don't see them captured here so the Department of Human Resources I'm sure will be able to have vacancy data but I think the budgeted piece still they work alongside OFS.

Chair Yang and Council Member Johnson.

I actually I think that's a fantastic point.

I think OFS probably should also be included in the language just to spell out that relationship.

committee.

One suggestion is probably just something, it could be as simple as saying that they shall in partnership with the office of financial or department of financial services be able to do that.

But from a language perspective I do think that we probably should mention them in both the budgetary reporting as well as the reporting on vacancies piece.

The other question that I had was related to the overtime

I know that this is noted to start on January 1st and I appreciate the New Year space.

This doesn't address the current contingency that we have within the police department.

So I am wondering if there's an ability to even have

Chair Yang and Councilmember Johnson, that's a great question.

Right now the language as it sits before you is silent on the question of the current contingency and admittedly even this timeline I thought might be even perhaps aggressive.

Okay.

You know for you know given that

It would depend on certain data systems, workflows, et cetera.

But I think it's something that still obviously needs to be addressed.

Okay, and then my final question is related to whether or not the current budgetary reporting requirements as written would require a purpose for giving them to have to explain what the use was of the type of employee.

So that they're deploying overtime expenditures, but there's no mention of just what it's for.

I know last time they had spoken a lot of it was around emergencies, but then there was some non-emergency overtime spending that was more related to events, special events, participation that was not related to dispatch or actual calls.

And I'm just wondering if it's a possibility to just have an addition under the average overtime by type, or something that would be like a

is a short explanation as to what it's for, whether it's what type of use it is.

So not just the employee, but the type of use.

If it's emergency, non-emergency, special events based, that might be just really great to try and see where so much of their overtime is being pulled from.

Because I know that they had mentioned that explicitly in their report back to us at the department was just that there's both non-emergency overtime spending.

That is also when they have to show up in places that are

that they send a duty cop, but it's for an event or for something else in community that they still need to report to.

Yeah, Chair Yang and Council Member Johnson.

Another great point, what I would indicate here is on line 61, total payroll costs related to overtime and the associated premium pay.

To your point, no, there's no activity coding in here.

I know that was previously discussed.

Premium pay is probably the closest we get to that in terms of court appearances, callbacks, or any of the other special activities outside of base compensation.

However, maybe not at the detail that is useful for counsel or wants.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks, Councilmember Yang.

Thanks so much, Chair Yang.

First of all, just backing up, I want to thank you for your leadership in having this conversation.

It seems to me like in all the budget processes I've been part of, we always kind of come up with some of these wrinkling, like, gosh, we wish blank.

And then sort of the budget process is done.

We move on to the new year.

And then before we know it, we're at the next budget process.

And we never really had time to address the blank.

and because of your leadership of this committee and the fact that we're meeting year round, we have the chance, so thank you.

It feels really good to be doing this.

Strongly supportive of the ordinance proposal.

I'm curious, I totally agree with Council Member Johnson's point about the need for reports now on

budget update from police I'm curious if we've made that request of them yet or not and if so how that's been responded to but I think we absolutely need that data from them now.

In my mind this ordinance is intended to address that issue in the future by just creating a process and not requiring us to be asking for information because it would just be baked in but we absolutely do need that information now.

and then I had two suggested additions.

One, it would be I think great to know in the vacancies section whether or not these are newly created positions because we've talked in the past about how often in a budget cycle we're asked to create new positions.

and we go back and forth on, well, is this actually going to be a full year's worth of salary?

Because by the time we get through the budget process, by the time the position is posted, by the time they're hired, is that really?

And it's especially, I think, egregious to me when we do budget for new positions and then find out that they weren't hired maybe for the entire year, maybe for a bunch of months of the year.

So knowing whether or not they were created within the last year I think would be a good add to that section.

And then also to Council Member Johnson's point on the overtime reporting,

if it's not already covered here, I think it would be good to know whether or not the overtime was compensated from an external source or not.

So to your point about the events, for example, they might work overtime but it's paid for or not.

Thank You chair Yang and councilmember naker good points I've made a note of that with regard to the newly created positions one of the one of the tensions here is that we budget in one year cycles and as you all know we need to have a structurally balanced budget revenues match expenditures and so oftentimes we're paying for a full year FTE but we know that given the reality of hiring timelines etc

I just want to make sure you answer your question to Council President about have we made a formal request for these reports, like from police, from fire, from HR.

We haven't yet, and I would say because we operate on a one year budget cycle, it's always pretty tough to request info at the beginning of the year.

We just started to, but I think now would be a really good time because I'm sure those numbers have been coming in.

and so I want to make sure that we get to a really good spot with like what we're asking and we will absolutely be making, I'm very supportive of us going in and submitting that request so that we actually have something ready for our budget season this year.

And I agree with the comments that you all have made, Council President Yu and Council Member Johnson about we really don't need to wait until next year for us to start getting this.

and we want it now.

So yeah, thank you.

I'll go to Councilmember Jones first.

Thanks, Chair Yang.

And Director Wilms, this is kind of just a comment on what Councilmember Johnson was saying about the type of overtime in the report from last year that the police department provided first.

They had a table with department overtime, contractual overtime, and special events overtime, and they broke that out.

So maybe that's possible that they could break that out for us.

The other thing I wanted to add is that there

and the

I don't remember what it was, if it was like workers' comp or additional benefits or just things that contributed to it, which I think would be helpful to also know.

It wouldn't technically be over time, but it seemed like it was somewhat significant, or not a non-significant part of their overall overspending.

And I think it would be important to capture that just to have the whole picture, if that's possible.

Yeah, and I think to like the terms of, I really appreciate that point, Council Member Jones, because I think the terms of like the, people often ask us like, what problem are we trying to solve?

I think in this case, we really are trying to, with this ordinance piece, really start to dive into what is catering to the significant amount of overspending within both departments regarding their overtime expenditures and everything else.

and so on.

right now it's the Department of Police or the Department of Fire and Safety Services here but it's you know we may find in the vacancy reports and other places that there has been even in future budget conversations that we may want to add this as a commonality for all sorts of departments but I think as a starting point I think that's the to me that that's the question or the problem or the thing we're trying to

I would share that while the formalized request hasn't been made, Council President, to your question, we actually have made several different attempts to have a discussion around the budgetary relations, particularly around the police overtime spending to address the contingency, and we have not received a response.

We have not received a schedule to have a meeting for that discussion.

committee.

When we decided to put the contingency in place, I will just admit that I kind of expected us to have a discussion with the St Paul Police Department regarding their overtime expenditures, and it's still a priority for me as a council member.

I think there's been a lot of great things that we have to highlight within our work of our police department.

And we had significant overspending, multi-million dollar overspending last year that we still need to really understand.

and so I would really appreciate, and I know Council Member Bui and I were kind of assigned in the council capacity with overtime expenditures, but I, and I shared this at the leadership team, but I would really appreciate Chair Yang and Director Wilmes for us to make a formal request this year with these points as a starting place.

to address this year's contingency.

I have made informal requests, and I know that the Office of Financial Services has begun to talk to the St. Paul Police Department about some of these items.

But I'd like to do that in a formalized way in writing.

And I think it would be, I'd really be appreciative to be a part of that.

I'd invite Council Member Bui to join me in that, and for the Chair as well, in respect to your position and the budget.

but we should make a formal ask in that way because I think that it's really just it's unacceptable to not get a response when it comes to scheduling to talk to the administration about the ways to report but also we are in May and heading into June and so I really do want to address the contingency because that's $700,000 that our police department is not currently able to use and I feel like addressing the contingency allows them to free up that time to

I would like to be able to cater to the ongoing issue which remains that they have an ongoing issue surrounding overtime and overtime spending that is every year related to the budget so I'm assuming they will need it this year so I would like to be able to address that contingency directly and so just to provide some further context for council members that has been my greatest disappointment so far I don't understand why we don't get a response and that's really concerning to me and so I would love for us to have a formal request

I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I'm happy to work on that with you, too, making that formal request.

I also want to highlight in the draft language here, it says that these reports will be quarterly reports.

I'm very supportive of that, and also would want to make sure that in our formal request that we make, we really emphasize that moving forward, even for this year, we would want those quarterly reports to come in.

Yes, I appreciate it.

I just wanted to say, Chair Yang, I do appreciate you having this on the agenda.

I know this is something that when you had plans to head up the Budget Committee early on, this was one of your big priorities.

I'm hearing all across the

Council that this is a huge priority for me.

I want to just also highlight and have stated that this is also a priority for Public Safety Committee.

This is also a budget conversation.

It's a public safety issue.

It's a issue that our constituents care deeply about, especially if 60% of our budget is going towards public safety.

We want to have a transparent space to see

what are our outcomes, what are our investments and how we are making good use of these funds.

This is a conversation that I had with both Chief Henry and Chief Inks.

I think this is a conversation that they also are dissecting around what is the factors, especially of someone who's an administrator who does the day to day, who isn't

doesn't hold the hat as like a chief budget officer, but doesn't know all the impacts of it.

I think there definitely needs to be time for it.

And I'm just wanting to allow for this conversation to happen here.

I think with the Public Safety Committee that we all voted for, and then also thank you again two weeks ago, voted for chair, I definitely foresee this conversation extending maybe in a different perspective, in a different realm.

but still have budgetary impacts.

So my question particularly is for Director Jay and also kind of extending from Councilmember Johnson around just our last year's resolution that had the quarterly request and now we're having the beginning conversations around the ordinance.

and no please excuse me if this was mentioned early on but I'm just trying to understand what would be the difference particularly around something that's in a fashion of an ordinance like versus our resolution like that is that because we go in the ordinance like does this now make it permanent right or does this now make this more of a formalized way that our budget did not already do

I'm just kind of like wrestling with that you know as we're all just dealing with the tension of you know we're now going we're approaching quarter three and I'm hearing from council members that we have not had any like responses to our to our requests for for the overtime spending tracking so that's my one question my second question

is implementation of this.

So I see just like where the reports go to, like they're submitted to the mayor and to the council.

But I'm not sure who actually is the person, like the staff structure, that's going to actually prepare this.

And with this ordinance, which I actually support, would this ordinance actually have

budgetary impact in a way to where we have to take on because essentially would it be our council that's preparing these documents and submitting it to the council and to the mayor?

Are we looking at certain departments to

is pretty much I guess within this ordinance like instruct a staffer to actually prepare these documents because one of the things I have noticed with everything that we have done particularly around ordinances like the implementation is not in our hands right we do broad policy making but then the administration does the actual like assigning of staff and even within your role right assigning of staff so I'm just really curious around what's the

Thank you.

Chair Yang and Council Member Lee, great question.

So to your first question about why an ordinance versus a resolution.

So within the charter authority that the council has for creating administrative ordinances through the legislative process, it really defines certain acts as having to be an ordinance versus all other being resolution.

So in this case,

as stipulated on lines 11 and 12 of the bill draft, excuse me, lines 9 and 10 of the bill draft.

Any act of the council establishing procedures for administrative actions must be enacted by administrative ordinances.

So that's why, and I think there's additional nuance in terms of the practical effect of an ordinance versus a resolution.

you know another thing to say about that is that um an ordinance is in many ways more permanent um it's publicly accessible it becomes part of our code that's online um and then it sort of routinizes the you know this process throughout the city versus a resolution which is documented in legistar which is our system of record but it's not doesn't have the same sort of permanence of an administrative code change um and then

you know in terms of and I think you know with that the goal of course is to you know improve the information decision-making environment by having these things you know routinized and have occur on a more regular basis and then to your second point about who owns the process

this is a

There is room for the administration to fill out details within this report, but they would ultimately have to own the process.

It requires on line 38 of page 2, the Department of Human Resources or renamed talent and equity resources.

to take on this report.

Of course, as Council Member Johnson indicated, it would need to be done also in collaboration with the Office of Financial Services.

I do appreciate this is first beginning stages in that really draft stage.

I think we really want to take our time with this especially as we are pretty much designing new internal infrastructure for

I think it's pretty much like a transparency process that we want both the department and our office to have access to.

But I do think it's a good start to where it has more permanency that you had mentioned and that we all really want.

But I think especially in terms of capacity and designing staff or assigning staff,

we don't have, well I mean I don't want to misspeak to say we don't have that authority but we can write that authority but it's really more so of the relationship building so which I think is important that we have multiple approaches and we have multiple committees to be able to

to ensure that what we're designing is actually going to be enacted.

I'll just make a couple of quick comments.

I appreciate the question from you, Councilmember Bui, and also the response from you, Director Williams.

In simple terms, how I think of it is that this is a way in which we make sure that there's accountability.

And also, it really ensures that there's communication on what is

Council.

so that we don't have to keep making requests randomly here and there based off of what we are reacting to when it comes to budget presentations.

And so the fact that there hasn't been responses to meeting requests or even just further conversation around this so that we can get to a place where there's concrete language put into a code or that there's a report delivered, I think that that's really indicative of the need to have something very permanent to create a structure that will allow for

for all the parties involved to know exactly what is expected of them overall.

And so I'm very just grateful that we have you, Director Wilmes.

When you came in as a chief budget officer, you were always really clear in providing us that guidance and also stressing the importance of let's get this into the code, or here's what the council can do and what they can't do.

And I really appreciate that about you.

It's really been a strength that I see in you, and I'm really glad that you continue to charge forward with that.

Thank you.

I have Vice Chair Kim and then Council Member Prabatsky and then Council President.

I just want to bring a few things into just to provide additional context because again the budget happens every year and sometimes we have to be reminded of some of the conversations that we've had.

I always appreciate it when my colleagues do the same.

So part of the conversation was around also attrition and retention and then connected to that, sworn strength is an arbitrary thing.

Who sets it, we set it.

It's based on population size but certainly

of the City Council.

We are hoping we focus on the attrition and retention of staff across the city.

Councilmember Johnson reminded me of the staff satisfaction survey we conducted for the first time.

Committee.

of the City Council.

So I also think that there is sort of an additional phase of questioning around who gets overtime, who gets an overtime line item in our budget, and I think the great conversation we've had so far is to what purpose and point and who gets it.

I just want to lift up that I agree.

I think there are components of this that definitely fall in our Public Safety Committee and our Budget Committee, and this is where having the conversation but recognizing how they overlap is important.

And then lastly, when you make a request at the diocese, it's really official.

In past years we've received really interesting reports of staffing structures that were conducted by Chief Inks and it had to do with our highest call time and how we're utilizing our paramedics who are also our firefighters.

and I asked the question to the chief as well, when is the highest amount of call times?

How many people do we have to have on to be fully staffed for the shift?

And what does that look like?

So I'm naming that for my colleagues and I would respectfully submit that into our official request.

And then lastly, I know these are not all fluently connected, but just taking in all the great conversation is around, I know I've lost it, what was it?

Reducing the overtime budget was also sort of meant connecting to the attrition and retention of our police force.

There were retirements included, and I think the thing, Council Member Jost, that they were talking about was fatigue on shift, and then when they have to be out for wellness and physical therapy.

but my I believe the intent of the council when we were discussing it was to incentivize them to staff up like that we are over relying on overtime and there's a great fatigue in our workforce and so by cutting by cutting the overtime but keeping their budget to be fully staffed up again to sort of an arbitrary number but one that we hear that they need is meant to be an incentive for them to staff up to recruit and retain

Thank you, Chair Yang, and I'm not sure if this is for Director Wilms or for yourself or frankly even others.

I'm mostly trying to make sure I have good context coming in a little bit later to this conversation than you all.

I was following it in the news and whatever, but that's so different than you all living it.

I'm Chair Yang and Councilmember Prabatsky.

I'm happy to defer to Councilmember Johnson's earlier comments related to this.

Multiple requests were made to the mayor's office to begin a process related to this.

Yes, sorry, Chair Yang and Director Wilmes, to be clear, not about the information that would be in the reporting, but about the possibility of an administrative ordinance or the language in the administrative ordinance is what I'm referring.

Chair Yang and Councilmember Pervatsky, I may not be aware of other conversations that have been had.

Okay, so yeah, just thank you.

I wanted to make sure I had a context of

if this is, for example, the first time they would be seeing this language and also hearing about the possibility of an administrative ordinance in general.

I just want to make sure I had that context.

I definitely think most folks have brought up questions and points I would already make.

The thing I'll name just in broad strokes and the same to my broad strokes first question is there's always sort of a tension between

committee.

I would like to think I try to operate almost entirely in relationship and then when needed pivot to the structural and I think all of you have experienced versions of where that trigger point has hit as well so I think I appreciate the fact that

all of us sort of just where everyone has different working styles so there always will be a slightly different opinion on what's needed or how much is needed versus what's not.

I think the main point that I really appreciate that I think you spoke to most Chair Yang but other folks did as well is setting up so there's clear expectation is certainly something that I'm in favor of.

I appreciate the goal of making sure information is being shared.

I think the method of

members.

I don't know how frequent or what information is included or not or other things like that can frequently come down to relationship management versus literally writing an administrative ordinance.

But I definitely support the idea of having shared expectation, having clear expectation, making sure we are being clear about what we want, and then it's on us to be trustworthy partners in that relationship either way.

But I definitely support the goal of that shared expectation and

This is forward-facing, but for this year's budget, of which I will not be here to help you all with, it is important to get some of this information now so that we're informed in the fall.

And Council Member Porotsky, you brought up a really great question.

Basically, was it mentioned or brought up to the mayor's office that this would be something that's put in the administrative code?

If I remember correctly, the email from

to the mayor's office was that that was something that we intended on doing.

We've had so many conversations about this since the budget cycle last year.

And the resolution that you all voted on, I believe that was when I was out on maternity leave.

So I don't know exactly what was worded into it, but I feel we've been really explicit on here's the intention of what we want and putting it into the code was part of it.

Thanks, Chair Yang, and I will only mention in the theme of shared expectation and clear expectation, I will also name, there have been times where I was very eager to put many, many even less legitimate things than this into the Administrative Code, thinking it would sort of guide department action or ensure our internal actions are done in a certain way.

I will flag, I'm assuming when we get the analysis from the City Attorney's Office, one thing they may flag is

of the City Council.

using the administrative ordinance for clear expectation and shared expectation is important.

But I will note that it still will require a fair amount of relationship management to ensure it comes to reality.

Because I think eventually, once you get down the line, the legal analysis might say there's technically no formal, hard stick.

Well, yeah, I appreciate that clarification.

And I think I will just say that I'm fully aware of the limitations regarding the administrative code, but it's simply from a lens of just like I also think that the lack of response is unacceptable.

And so being able to, as a council member, I think the one thing I can do within our authority is to kind of pursue this.

But I also feel like, one, this would not be necessary if we could make this response request and then get a response that matches.

I'm not sure at this point in time if we'd be able to do that.

I feel more optimistic about just the relationships I have in certain departments and some that I don't.

For example, I do think that making the ask of our fire and safety services from my experience, usually I'm able to get a response back from Chief Eakes.

I welcome that conversation and I hope that we're able to after this conversation especially surrounding the contingency move forward in a way that is like

committee.

I think the one piece I

I think this could be a really cool test run for that process and I was just kind of pulling it up because we have an optimistic 11 week timeline for things but looking at where we are in this space and because I believe we'll soon have

and the legislative assistant role as well.

This to me really does quantify that four to six week period of a hearing of the policy committee for it.

And so I really would encourage us to utilize the legislative drafting process that we have as an opportunity to kind of walk folks through.

I know it's being currently

and the city attorney's office space, but I still think that that's okay for us to proceed on the timeline that's given so that way it can follow the next steps that it would typically in week five through seven.

And so I'd really love to see this continue forward in hopes that it would start to address some of the department's buy-in, the city attorney's office buy-in and things of that nature.

be around just in time for budget to actual conversations in July that we intend to have.

committee.

The problem with such a great conversation is they keep being things I want to respond to.

I'll make them quick.

To councilmember Johnson's point, I think that's an excellent idea to use our newly minted legislative drafting process.

I will update the group that yesterday we met with Mr. Wilmes and I met with city attorney Olson and city attorney Skarda to talk about the process.

A lot of buy-in and interest, a couple of tweaks we're making and meeting next Thursday to hopefully final it.

But I think it was a really

I want to make sure we are doing it right.

I think the other value of the administrative ordinance is by making it that formal you have the continuity and I think given that we just saw a council where four new members came on board

we know that what you come into is sort of what you accept as the normal and what you don't come into you sort of have to figure out is needed and in some ways I feel like this is a gift that we can give to the next generation of people who will sit in our seats of our awareness of what is needed so that when they come in the world that they come into is one that has been shaped by what we've already learned is needed not something they have to learn and then figure out and then create and

I totally agree about the issues with enforcement.

I would just say if it's not in code, it's not even an expectation.

So we can't even start.

And it would surprise all of you to know that I have looked a little bit into what the actual legal options are if you can't get admin code responded to.

I know, shocking for me.

And there is a legal process called the writ of mandamus that the council can actually pursue in court if administrative code is not being followed.

We would never want to get to that point.

We do everything relationally, and I think we always will and should.

Just a note that there is an actual process.

And finally, I just wanted to come back to Vice President Kim's point about

sort of what might also be part of the report and I think given how much conversation we had last year about the fire department and how much additional resources we put into hiring additional firefighters, I just want to make sure that the report that we ask for in the near future includes hiring of those positions that we put in because that was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

Thanks Council President.

Anybody else have questions, comments?

Okay, don't see any.

So the last thing I'll share too is Director Wilms.

I do remember when we had our library board meeting, maybe one or two months ago, the library director mentioned that it was in the code that they had to come and present sometime, maybe April or something.

So it'd be really interesting to look up what's the language for even that department.

I don't think we need to look at every example out there, but I'd be really interested in seeing how detailed are they in their language.

Do they list out what needs to be presented or not?

It seems like the library director has a lot of autonomy in deciding what they actually want to share because each director's report back to us has been very different and unique every year.

So just wanted to add that as some intel that I learned along the way recently here.

Thank you Councilmember or Chair Yang.

I guess to the another question around like implementation I just noticed in the document it doesn't reference at all Office of Financial Services because I kind of think of them as like a centralized like reporting fiscal you know transparency like body so I'm just wondering because even like I mentioned earlier

and the Department of Police.

Thank you Chair Yang and Council Member Wrigley.

You're correct.

This should be part of the draft really is OFS's role in terms of financial data and information.

of the library because it's a separate agency and section I think it's section 14 of the code there's a lot of requirements in

What the library director is supposed to present, when the budget is supposed to be presented, and there's certain days in which those presentations are required to be made.

So that's where that lives.

So if folks want to read chapter 14, they can.

Is it in April?

It just says a number of days.

So it says like 165 days before the date of adoption of a proposed maximum tax levy.

So that would be September.

So 165 days, I'm guessing, would put that in April.

So that's in there and mostly because the library is its own separate agency, I would assume.

This is in the admin code, yep.

Thanks, Council Member Jost.

Last round for questions or comments.

All right.

Well, seeing none, I want to say thank you to everybody at the table here for the rich conversation.

There is a lot of work to do with this, and I look forward to having Plo and I stay in touch with you all and Vice Chair Kim and Abi Hamid as well about this and next steps.

Director Williams, thank you again for your hard work on this.