Budget Committee December 09, 2025   12/9/2025

Discussion

• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:00:31
    Good morning.
  • 00:00:32
    My name is Aisha Chugtai and I'm the Chair of the Budget Committee.
  • 00:00:39
    I'm going to call to order our adjourned meeting for Tuesday, December 9, 2025.
  • 00:00:46
    Before we begin the meeting, I want to offer a friendly reminder
  • 00:00:49
    to all members, staff, and the public that these meetings are broadcast live to enable greater public participation.
  • 00:00:56
    These broadcasts include real-time captioning as a further method to increase the accessibility of our proceedings to the community.
  • 00:01:03
    Therefore, all speakers need to be mindful of the rate of their speech so that our captioner can fully capture and transcribe all comments for the broadcast.
  • 00:01:14
    We ask all speakers to moderate the speed and clarity of their comments.
  • 00:01:18
    At this time, I'll ask the Clerk to call the roll so we can verify the presence of a quorum.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:01:23
    Councilmember Payne.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:01:24
    Present.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:01:25
    Wonsley.
  • 00:01:25
    Present.
  • 00:01:26
    Rainville.
  • 00:01:27
    Present.
  • 00:01:28
    Beta.
• • Katie Cashman
  • 00:01:28
    Present.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:01:29
    Ellison is absent.
  • 00:01:31
    Osmond is absent.
  • 00:01:32
    Cashman.
  • 00:01:33
    Present.
  • 00:01:34
    Jenkins.
  • 00:01:35
    Absent.
  • 00:01:35
    Chavez.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:01:36
    Present.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:01:38
    Let the record reflect that we have a quorum.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:01:48
    I will also remind my colleagues that we are using speaker management today so please make sure you sign in.
  • 00:01:54
    We will now begin, we will now continue considering revisions to Mayor Frey's 2026 recommended budget.
  • 00:02:02
    Yesterday we left off with amendment number 29 with council members Rainville, Palmisano, and Chaudhry in queue to speak.
  • 00:02:09
    I will first recognize council member Cashman to summarize the amendment we are discussing, amendment number 29.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:02:21
    Good morning, thank you Chair Chugtai.
  • 00:02:23
    Number one, good morning everyone.
  • 00:02:25
    Number two, let's relieve ourselves of this budget amendment.
  • 00:02:30
    And I'll move approval again.
  • 00:02:33
    Is there a second?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:02:35
    Second.
  • 00:02:35
    Alright, we'll go to the queue now, see if there's any discussion on this item.
  • 00:02:41
    I'll first recognize Councilmember Rainville followed by Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Michael Rainville
  • 00:02:45
    Thank you.
  • 00:02:45
    So I'm going to vote for this for many reasons, but one is to stop the puns.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:02:53
    They are painful, I'll give you that.
• • Michael Rainville
  • 00:02:55
    But I do, I would like to be added as author of this.
  • 00:02:59
    I think you've been really creative in finding the funding.
  • 00:03:03
    You know, good job Katie.
  • 00:03:04
    Councilmember Cashman, I have to give you credit for that.
  • 00:03:07
    And I do have great confidence in our Public Works Department.
  • 00:03:10
    I think they're smart enough to figure this out.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:03:13
    Thank you Madam Chair.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:03:28
    Those are hard acts to follow.
  • 00:03:33
    I agree that we need more public restrooms and everyone needs safe and clean facilities.
  • 00:03:39
    I have several questions as to how this would work in reality, so I worry that we'd be pissing away money here.
  • 00:03:49
    The very first sentence of the key highlights on the standalone public restrooms report by our legislative research and oversight division says many of the cities reviewed in this report completed a pilot program prior to installing more permanent restroom options.
  • 00:04:06
    This
  • 00:04:07
    This particular amendment has ongoing funding.
  • 00:04:10
    So first, I'm curious for the author or someone who helped put this together.
  • 00:04:15
    Is your intent to do a pilot program as other cities have done to determine the effectiveness and the true costs of such a program?
  • 00:04:22
    Or what have you used to determine how we do this permanently now?
  • 00:04:26
    I'll recognize Councilmember Cashman.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:04:28
    Thank you, Madam Chair, thank you Councilmember Palmisano.
  • 00:04:31
    I made this funding ongoing because in our research with other, talking with other cities that have implemented this, Ann Arbor being one, the bathrooms were so popular that the community did not want to get rid of them once they were created and it was for
  • 00:04:45
    you know creating some sustainability of the funding to make this ongoing that you wouldn't have to debate removing bathrooms next year as a council and I think it's wise for us to invest in things long-term rather than one-time funding because we've seen some comments from the administration that when we do pilot projects it does create budgetary concerns down the road and so I thought it would be more sustainable in the long term to ensure we had the ongoing funding for this
  • 00:05:13
    and this is coming from the Value Capture District Fund which expires in 2038 so I think we have plenty of time that's 14 years away to find other sources if need be at that time.
  • 00:05:26
    I also envision that
  • 00:05:29
    This would be rolled out on Nicollet Avenue because that's where the Value Capture District is.
  • 00:05:33
    However, there are many communities throughout Minneapolis that could benefit from public bathrooms, Uptown being one of them.
  • 00:05:39
    And it's worth exploring, I think, when we see how this goes on Nicollet Ave, how we could potentially fund bathrooms in other neighborhoods.
  • 00:05:48
    Park dedication fees can go to neighborhood associations, for example, to do bathrooms or
  • 00:05:54
    special service districts might consider it or there are other ways and partnerships with the county or metro transit or the park board could be explored so I think that this narrow scope along Nicollet Avenue is a good way for us to test it out.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:06:10
    Thank you.
  • 00:06:11
    That's a good answer and I really do appreciate that.
  • 00:06:14
    I am a little concerned on the impact and services of the .75 FTE that's resourced to this new project out of Public Works.
  • 00:06:22
    I don't know if Director Sexton has an idea as to who or whom in his department will end up being responsible for this.
  • 00:06:31
    Again, from our legislative research study for PV Plaza, DID staff said the key to that restroom success is ambassador staffing.
  • 00:06:43
    They said you need someone to keep an eye out.
  • 00:06:45
    If not, people would just go in there, lock it, and claim it as their own.
  • 00:06:49
    and Badei Makaska, they talked about a lot of problems.
  • 00:06:53
    In the commons, park board staff had to build a fence or cage around the porta potties that are only open when the park is staffed.
  • 00:07:03
    I highlight those issues to say that if we as a city are going down this path, it's clear to me that we need a significant amount of resources deployed to monitor the restrooms, not just to maintain and clean them.
  • 00:07:15
    I see Director Sexton standing up and I
  • 00:07:18
    I'm curious where from the Public Works budget will you be taking this FTE and resourcing it to bathrooms and how often?
• • Tim Sexton
  • 00:07:32
    Chair Chuck Tai, Council Member Palmesano, my name is Tim Sexton, Public Works Director for the City.
  • 00:07:38
    In terms of your question regarding the staffing for this work, I think it's, we did want to make sure in our responses it was clear that we do have an assumption that there would be, some of this funding would go towards staff administration and management of the pilot program itself.
  • 00:07:56
    We are envisioning there's quite a bit of engagement involved along with contract management.
  • 00:08:01
    I think that most logically fits in with our transportation planning and programming team.
  • 00:08:05
    The planners who do that engagement, it may shift in the future to some other group within Public Works if this moves from the installation to the maintenance.
  • 00:08:17
    But I do just want to make it clear to Council that this works for us, assuming that we can have some staff time included in the $700,000.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:08:26
    Yeah.
  • 00:08:30
    This is money meant to help improve transit, so if we're using money that's meant to improve transit to bathrooms, that's a choice.
  • 00:08:39
    My fear is that we get started with something like this and then we find we can't manage it with the operating costs that will be required.
  • 00:08:49
    I'm curious how many units can we truly operate with this kind of funding and what has been your conversation about that?
  • 00:08:56
    It looks like the author is ready to answer that question.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:08:59
    Sure, we kind of under set the expectations a little bit lower because we wanted to give buffer to Public Works to be able to manage the contract.
  • 00:09:08
    So when we originally talked to other cities, I think $700,000 could fund up to eight bathrooms, but we set the
  • 00:09:15
    expectation down to about five so that we could give that buffer to staff and just noting that this is to contract with a private vendor to that private vendor would also assist in the maintenance and operations and some companies have even said that if you and if Minneapolis starts working with certain companies that they would bring a staffer to you know to work and live here in Minneapolis and
  • 00:09:40
    I think we could benefit from an economy of scale if other cities in the region started working with the same vendor then we could have more staff on hand but of course that's something for Public Works to do in the contract development.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:09:52
    So just to be clear I've heard you mention that I've heard Director Sexton mention it's a pilot but what you're saying is that I mean this is ongoing money that's the budget amendment before us you're saying that money would run out in about 12 years
  • 00:10:06
    So it's kind of a 12 year pilot maybe is what we're saying.
  • 00:10:09
    Do you know of any areas or businesses?
  • 00:10:13
    Have you worked with the downtown council at all to see where these bathrooms would most appropriately be placed?
  • 00:10:18
    I would imagine by transit stops.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:10:20
    Yeah, all along Nicollet Ave and the value capture district map is included in the budget proposal so you can see it goes all the way south to the Kmart site and it goes all the way north into downtown northeast.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:10:31
    Councilmember Palmisano's time has expired.
  • 00:10:33
    Councilmember Cashman, wrap up your thought so we can get your answer.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:10:37
    Yes, and there's also a map in here of urination hotspots that the downtown council is servicing so I'm guessing that hotspot map would also be helpful data in selecting sites.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:10:47
    Thank you.
  • 00:10:48
    Wonderful, thank you.
  • 00:10:49
    I initially had Council Member Chowdhury in queue.
  • 00:10:56
    I will note that she has joined us in this meeting and recognize her for comments.
• • Aurin Chowdhury
  • 00:11:00
    Thank you, Chair Chugtai.
  • 00:11:01
    Thank you, Council Member Cashman for bringing this amendment forward.
  • 00:11:05
    I just wanted to speak in support of it.
  • 00:11:08
    I think that us as a city, looking at a longer term pilot for public restrooms is a great way for us to
  • 00:11:16
    become a smart city and be a city where it's easy for people of all ages to be able to enjoy different corridors, especially for our transit riders.
  • 00:11:28
    I was really really impressed by the response we got from our legislative directive and to see how many options there are for the city of Minneapolis to contract with.
  • 00:11:40
    I'll uplift one.
  • 00:11:43
    Council.
  • 00:11:58
    kind of like a contract that takes care of all of the things around cleaning and maintenance and in other cities had a dedicated person in the in the region in the area that would come and service the area and then in terms of safety and use one of the tactics that they used was having like
  • 00:12:20
    of the City of
  • 00:12:36
    if there was any instance of vandalism or destruction or just behavior that we don't want to see in our public restrooms we'd be able to identify that individual card code and shut it off and be able to enforce it that way so people who are
  • 00:12:52
    not using toilets the way that they're meant to be used would be held accountable and I just think the technology and the thought process around this has really developed and for me I would really like to be able to see how this works on Nicollet Avenue to see how we could expand it throughout the city like that's my longer term vision for public
  • 00:13:14
    public restrooms in my ward since I started representing the 12th Ward, the 46th and Hiawatha Station has had a really, really unique instance of people using the restroom.
  • 00:13:31
    and the
  • 00:13:49
    come into our city from the airport and so to see a facility like that available to visitors from outside of our state coming in and heading towards downtown in the future I think would be a major improvement and my residents have asked for a very very long time to see if there's a public restroom option the city can look at and partner with Metro Transit so
  • 00:14:15
    I'm really supportive of this.
  • 00:14:16
    I think this is going to bring our city into a new modern era and really improve the public realm and I wanted to ask Councilmember Cashman if I could be a co-author on this.
  • 00:14:30
    Yes, okay, thank you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:14:32
    Clerks have noted both Councilmember Rainville and Chaudry.
  • 00:14:36
    Excellent.
  • 00:14:36
    I'll note that we've been joined by Councilmember Osman.
  • 00:14:40
    I'll next recognize Councilmember Chavez followed by Councilmember Palmisano.
• • SPEAKER_09
  • 00:14:45
    Thank you Chair Chiu-Chai and thank you Councilmember Cashman for bringing this budget amendment forward.
  • 00:14:53
    It was great to see some of these bathrooms in Washington DC when we went to the National League of Cities and very excited that you brought this work forward.
  • 00:15:03
    I think it's really important.
  • 00:15:04
    I know that it's mostly focused in the downtown area but my reason for supporting it is because it's important that we start somewhere.
  • 00:15:11
    and if we see that this is something that is going to be really great in downtown we'd love to see how we could in the future bring this across or different parts of the city in Minneapolis.
  • 00:15:21
    This is a topic that a lot of my constituents reach out to me when I'm knocking doors when we're talking about specific specific livability issues on how we can just create access to bathrooms so we can make sure that
  • 00:15:33
    We can have clean streets and neighborhoods.
  • 00:15:36
    So just really excited, very proud to support this amendment and would ask Councilmember Cashman if I could also be added as an author.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:15:43
    Absolutely.
  • 00:15:46
    Excellent.
  • 00:15:46
    And then we'll close out with Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:15:51
    Thank you Madam Chair.
  • 00:15:52
    I did have some closing comments I wanted to share and just didn't want to try and push that in at the end.
  • 00:15:57
    I agree that we need public restrooms and I agree that we need them outside Nicollet Mall like Councilmember Choudry notes.
  • 00:16:03
    But I just don't think this amendment is ready or in a place I can support it today.
  • 00:16:08
    We have no idea if $600,000 per year is enough to manage all of these factors of installing, operating, and maintaining these units.
  • 00:16:17
    I would have preferred to see an amendment written as a three to five year pilot, a pilot like Director Sexton mentioned, so that we can accurately determine what the financial investment is that is needed.
  • 00:16:30
    I imagine that site selection alone will be a very cumbersome process and might experience some pushback about exactly where these units are placed.
  • 00:16:39
    So I do appreciate the interest in this.
  • 00:16:42
    I am confident it will pass, but I won't be able to support it today.
  • 00:16:46
    But thank you Councilmember Cashman for your work on this.
  • 00:16:48
    You've gotten much, much further than many people before you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:16:53
    Wonderful.
  • 00:16:54
    Seeing no further discussion, I will ask the Clerk to call the roll on Amendment Number 29, Nicolette Avenue Public Restrooms.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:17:01
    Councilmember Payne?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:17:02
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:17:03
    Wonsley?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:17:04
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:17:09
    Osmond?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:17:10
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:17:11
    Cashman?
  • 00:17:12
    Aye.
  • 00:17:14
    Chavez?
  • 00:17:15
    Aye.
  • 00:17:16
    Chaudry?
  • 00:17:17
    Aye.
  • 00:17:17
    Palmesano?
  • 00:17:18
    Nay.
  • 00:17:19
    Vice Chair Koski?
  • 00:17:20
    Aye.
  • 00:17:21
    Chair Chugte?
  • 00:17:22
    Aye.
  • 00:17:23
    That is ten ayes and one nay.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:17:25
    That motion carries.
  • 00:17:27
    Amendment number 30 is nighttime business license inspectors offered by Councilmember Rainville.
  • 00:17:38
    Councilmember Rainville, will you please introduce your amendment and make a motion.
  • 00:17:45
    If we can turn on your mic, please.
• • Michael Rainville
  • 00:17:48
    It's a good start to turn on the mic.
  • 00:17:49
    Thank you for reminding me.
  • 00:17:51
    What you have before you is a proposal for nighttime business license inspectors operating on a CPED and that would move money out of Public Works to fund this on an ongoing basis, continue to work with Public Works and Budget to working through the ability to minimize impact on their budget.
  • 00:18:13
    I know this is a tough ask of Public Works to do this.
  • 00:18:17
    But I wanted to speak in favor of this.
  • 00:18:21
    This is an effort to keep our nighttime economy moving.
  • 00:18:25
    At this point now, when five o'clock, six o'clock at night, there is no one on the city staff to help monitor
  • 00:18:32
    this economic engine that is our nighttime economy.
  • 00:18:36
    And this is an opportunity for me to work with all of you on the council to see how can we help your business districts.
  • 00:18:45
    Whether it's Dinkytown, Uptown, East Hennepin,
  • 00:18:50
    Lake Street, West Broadway.
  • 00:18:52
    Think of all the places we have that nighttime economy, yet there's no city management of that.
  • 00:18:58
    And I also want to direct some comments to CPED.
  • 00:19:01
    I've talked to Eric Hanson, Director Hanson many times, and I realize this is a tough ask of you as well.
  • 00:19:08
    But I'm committed to working with you and your staff, and let's figure this out.
  • 00:19:12
    We need this, and I really hope that my fellow colleagues can
  • 00:19:17
    support this amendment and work with me so I make a motion to approve it.
  • 00:19:24
    Thank you.
  • 00:19:24
    Is there a second?
  • 00:19:25
    Second.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:19:26
    Is there any discussion?
  • 00:19:27
    I'll recognize Council President Payne.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:19:29
    I'm speaking in support of this amendment.
  • 00:19:34
    Northeast has a number of little neighborhood bars and right now the status quo is that either we have bar owners that are really on top of managing their operations and there's no issues or we have owners that are just overwhelmed by the reality of having a bar in the middle of a residential neighborhood.
  • 00:19:53
    survey up here from one of my constituents who just went and knocked doors of his neighbors and got 60 pamphlets out, 45 responses that are just highlighting some of the issues that they have with one of our neighborhood bars and I think that we need a middle ground between, you know, a well-run bar or a bar that's struggling and I think that having a higher touch from the city can help make those neighborhoods and those businesses more successful so I'm speaking, I hope everybody supports this.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:20:23
    I'm not seeing any further discussion.
  • 00:20:24
    Clerk, please call the roll on Amendment No.
  • 00:20:26
    30, Nighttime Business License Inspector.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:20:29
    Councilmember Payne?
  • 00:20:31
    Aye.
  • 00:20:31
    Wonsley?
  • 00:20:32
    Aye.
  • 00:20:33
    Rainville?
  • 00:20:33
    Aye.
  • 00:20:34
    Vita?
  • 00:20:34
    Aye.
  • 00:20:35
    Osman?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:20:37
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:20:38
    Cashman?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:20:39
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:20:40
    Chavez?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:20:41
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:20:42
    Chaudhry?
  • 00:20:43
    Aye.
  • 00:20:43
    Palmisano?
  • 00:20:44
    No.
  • 00:20:45
    Vice Chair Koski?
• • 00:20:47
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:20:47
    Chair Choctaw aye.
  • 00:20:49
    That is ten ayes and one nay.
  • 00:20:51
    That motion carries.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:20:54
    Next is amendment number 31.
  • 00:20:58
    There is a revised version of this amendment that was passed out I believe yesterday.
  • 00:21:03
    This is grocery store development funding offered by Councilmember Wansley.
  • 00:21:10
    Councilmember Wansley will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:21:14
    Yes, thank you Council Vice President Chuktai.
  • 00:21:18
    This amendment comes from myself and Councilmember Ellison and for the clerks I will note that Councilmember Ellison is missing as a co-author on this motion and would like that to be added.
  • 00:21:29
    But this amendment allocates $200,000 to support the development of a grocery store in an area of our city identified as experiencing high food insecurity or what also as our homegrown
  • 00:21:42
    Council has defined to be food apartheid.
  • 00:21:46
    The revised motion also makes clear that these dollars may only be released if a qualifying organization such as a non-profit or community development financial institution submits bids for the funding along with matching dollars.
  • 00:22:00
    My office as well as Council Member Ellison's office has been in several conversations with potential partners both in War II as well as stakeholders in North Minneapolis who have a demonstrated interest in working together
  • 00:22:12
    to get a grocery store in those respective areas.
  • 00:22:16
    In Dinkytown specifically, several community groups through partnership with the University of Minnesota have even secured funding to hire staff to advance this work.
  • 00:22:25
    These dollars are earmarked in the Great Streets Fund, which limits the geographic areas which this grocery store can be, but still offers many options
  • 00:22:35
    for corridors in the areas that would be impacted and that would touch the areas that community partners that we've been in discussions also are interested in advancing this work around.
  • 00:22:48
    So with that, I will move this motion for approval and ask for a second.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:22:55
    Second.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:22:56
    that amendment number 31 has been properly moved and seconded.
  • 00:23:00
    Is there any discussion?
  • 00:23:02
    I will recognize Councilmember Vita.
• • Katie Cashman
  • 00:23:05
    Thank you, Chair.
  • 00:23:06
    My question is for the author.
  • 00:23:09
    Councilmember Wonsley, I'm just wondering if there's opportunity here for existing grocery stores to benefit from this.
  • 00:23:17
    I think the bigger problem we have in Ward 4 is we have North Market, that's a struggling grocery store,
  • 00:23:24
    that, you know, if we developed a new grocery store it wouldn't be as helpful to the community as helping North Market, right?
  • 00:23:35
    So like, I'm just wondering if there's an opportunity or could we
  • 00:23:40
    maybe create an opportunity in this for a store like North Market or Solo or Colonial Market.
  • 00:23:47
    Some of the stores that we have in North Minneapolis already that are struggling to stay open that may be able to benefit from some of these dollars in helping not to create another grocery store but to sustain existing grocery stores in our community that is ran by our community members.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:24:09
    I do appreciate the tent.
  • 00:24:13
    This budget amendment is strictly for pre-development dollars so it is targeted towards communities that's looking to create a new grocery store.
  • 00:24:22
    I don't know from the conversations that Councilmember Ellison has had.
  • 00:24:25
    I think some of the
  • 00:24:28
    intentions behind that is looking at areas in his ward that are not in proximity to some of the places that you name so communities who don't have access through vehicles or whatever the case might be to be able to access those and to have a store created in their communities and I know that's the case for my ward as well but yeah I do understand that intent would love to have further conversations about that but this amendment is strictly for the pre-development phase for something new.
• • Katie Cashman
  • 00:24:58
    Thank you.
  • 00:24:58
    I would just also say Councilmember Ellison has Cub Foods in his ward, so that's like the one major grocery store in North Minneapolis.
  • 00:25:07
    But I understand.
  • 00:25:09
    I can't support it.
  • 00:25:10
    I think we need to help the businesses that exist already to be sustained, and I know for certain that
  • 00:25:20
    several of the stores in North Minneapolis could benefit from this kind of money.
  • 00:25:24
    I had had conversations about bringing an amendment forward to help with that.
  • 00:25:29
    North Market was on the brink of closing the doors at the end of November and someone stepped in and helped them with funding, so I'm able to have conversations with staff this upcoming year to make sure that we can, I've got a commitment from staff, you know, to help out in ways that we could
  • 00:25:49
    and make sure that they're sustained.
  • 00:25:52
    Their entry was the 50% off fruits and vegetables on Wednesdays and they changed that to 25% and they saw a huge decline in people coming to the store.
  • 00:26:07
    So now they went to two days a week at 50% off fruits and vegetables.
  • 00:26:12
    And so that's something we need access to.
  • 00:26:14
    We need to keep growing that program.
  • 00:26:17
    and I think as a city we can help and I was hoping this would be able to help them and because it can't, I can't support this.
  • 00:26:25
    Thank you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:26:26
    Thank you.
  • 00:26:27
    Next I'll recognize Councilmember Osman and note that we've been joined in this committee by Councilmember Jenkins.
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:26:34
    Thank you, Chair.
  • 00:26:37
    I support the amendment.
  • 00:26:38
    I think it's a great, wonderful, my area like Elliott Park could definitely use something like this but I am a little concerned about limiting this to non-profits or you know non-profits don't start groceries.
  • 00:26:55
    Groceries are mainly independent, family-owned, family-run businesses and I don't know if this is just a limited to non-profit only or
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:27:04
    Council Member Osman, you'll see we just listed some examples of organizations that could qualify.
  • 00:27:10
    Again, it will go through a RFP.
  • 00:27:12
    So nonprofits, different organizations can submit as long as they have those matching dollars.
  • 00:27:18
    But it also mentions community development institutions.
  • 00:27:22
    It also mentions, you know, similar groups like that.
  • 00:27:25
    So it's not just limited to nonprofits.
  • 00:27:29
    Yeah.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:27:30
    All right.
  • 00:27:30
    Thank you.
  • 00:27:32
    Thank you.
  • 00:27:33
    Next we'll go to Councilmember Rainville followed by Councilmember Cashman.
• • Michael Rainville
  • 00:27:40
    Thank you.
  • 00:27:40
    I stand in support of Councilmember Vita.
  • 00:27:43
    I agree 100% that we should support the existing grocery stores as well.
  • 00:27:49
    So I'm wondering if the author, is there any wiggle room in your amendment that at least some information in the research of this could help focus on existing grocery stores as well?
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:28:01
    Thank you, Councilmember Rainville.
  • 00:28:02
    I think we've spent almost nearly a year getting to this place about identifying the need for pre-development dollars.
  • 00:28:09
    Again, I'm more than happy to work with Councilmember Vita, especially our homegrown council who've also talked about this, to look at how to support existing stores, but the issue that I've had conversations with Councilmember Ellison and just residents in my ward is the need for something new in areas that don't have access to a grocery store.
  • 00:28:27
    So that's why I want to keep the intent of the amendment as it currently stands.
• • Michael Rainville
  • 00:28:32
    Okay.
  • 00:28:34
    Thank you for that response.
  • 00:28:35
    Is Councilmember Olsen going to come in today?
  • 00:28:38
    Could we talk with him?
  • 00:28:39
    Could we lay this over until he's in?
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:28:41
    I don't see the need to do that.
  • 00:28:44
    I mean, these amendments have been also public, so if someone, I mean Councilmember Vitale or yourself, would like to find additional funding sources to do exactly or accomplish the intent that you're laying out, I think we would love to see that.
  • 00:28:56
    You have until tonight to do that, but I don't see that needing to come in conflict with what we're considering today.
• • Michael Rainville
  • 00:29:04
    Thank you.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:29:05
    Council Member Cashman.
  • 00:29:07
    Thank you Madam Chair.
  • 00:29:09
    I had also asked about some flexibility in this funding because I think that our PAH report did have a lot of recommendations including public-private partnerships that I think could be explored and I did want to point out that if you look at our license fee schedule
  • 00:29:23
    that businesses who are operating a grocery store have to pay to the city.
  • 00:29:27
    It ranges from $460 up to $1700.
  • 00:29:30
    And I feel like there could be an opportunity to explore waiving fees for grocery stores
  • 00:29:40
    starting in the green zones for example or finding ways of reducing the city burden that we're placing on grocery store operators, maybe exploring a vibrant storefronts type model where we're subsidizing part of the rent to fill vacant storefronts with small grocery stores or convenience stores.
  • 00:29:57
    I would really like to see this issue addressed flexibly so that we can try to create the maximum output from this money that the council's allocating.
  • 00:30:07
    I'm wondering if those options that I've
  • 00:30:09
    put forward now will fall within the budget proposal.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:30:14
    Thank you Councilmember Cashman.
  • 00:30:17
    Again, I can only go by the motion language that's very, I think it's clear.
  • 00:30:22
    It notes it's a one-time appropriation for qualifying organizations and it lists some of those as examples who have matching dollars to do the pre-development work to start a grocery store.
  • 00:30:34
    I'm hearing folks would love to explore how to
  • 00:30:38
    support existing grocery chains or options, that is not what this amendment does.
  • 00:30:43
    It is to start new grocery stores in areas that has been identified or has been identified as a need.
  • 00:30:50
    But it does allow that flexibility in terms of, again, you need matching dollars, there's contingencies, and it lists different examples of organizations who can essentially be qualified to access these dollars.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:31:04
    Would private companies be eligible for these dollars or is it only for non-profits?
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:31:11
    I think the goal is absolutely focusing on organizations that have a public interest.
  • 00:31:16
    So it lists, again, community development, financial institutions.
  • 00:31:20
    We see some of those that kind of actually an example of that, Council Member, these I mentioned like North Market.
  • 00:31:26
    Those are some of the organizations that we are seeing doing the heavy lifting of advancing this work.
  • 00:31:31
    Private chains, as we also saw from that report, that PAR did actually do not have an issue with getting.
  • 00:31:38
    the resources and upfront capital to do development of grocery stores.
  • 00:31:42
    So that is not where we're seeing the need.
  • 00:31:44
    It is some of these more publicly linked or publicly financed institutions that want to do this work who don't have those type of resources available to them and this is to help support those.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:31:54
    Would grocery stores like Good Grocer on the south side be eligible?
  • 00:32:00
    Because I know that they're one of the few grocery stores that provide SNAP and other benefits in the area which is a difficulty right now.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:32:07
    I think, as you know, Councilmember Cashman, that's an operational decision.
  • 00:32:11
    I don't get to make that.
  • 00:32:13
    If they are a non-profit organization or if they have a CDFI, I think that is something that CPED, who would be the host department, to be able to determine through the RFP.
  • 00:32:24
    But I don't even know, I can't make that decision.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:32:30
    Wonderful.
  • 00:32:31
    Councilmember Palmisano.
  • 00:32:34
    Councilmember Rainville, will you turn off your mic?
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 00:32:36
    Thanks.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:32:37
    I'm worried that this amount of money is not likely to achieve the goal, which is a grocery store in a food insecure area.
  • 00:32:50
    Grocery stores are notoriously expensive to develop and maintain and have very little profit margin that gets to go back into the store.
  • 00:33:00
    What can $200,000 accomplish here?
  • 00:33:02
    There's no way it can cover space, build out inventory, technology, equipment, licenses, or even staff just to open the doors.
  • 00:33:10
    But it could really do a lot for existing places like North Market.
  • 00:33:14
    Director Hanson, my question for you is what services will be lost within business development with this appropriation?
• • Erik HansenDirector of CPED
  • 00:33:25
    Good morning, Chair Chug Thai, members of the committee.
  • 00:33:28
    I'm Eric Hanson the CPED director and to answer your question council member Palmisano.
  • 00:33:33
    Yes, it's a it's it it is it is a It's in the eye of a holder how much money it is $200,000 though for the the creation of a new electricity store is not going to be sufficient to open a grocery store It would have to leverage other funding and that's what the amendment does say as the council as the council author Wonsley talks about it's
  • 00:33:54
    It's potentially leveraging some matching funds with some organizations that are in the market.
  • 00:34:00
    We are not experts at opening grocery stores.
  • 00:34:03
    We have talked to others.
  • 00:34:05
    As this amendment came across our transom, we kind of started to do some research about how much this would hold.
  • 00:34:13
    This is absolutely something that would have to go into an existing building.
  • 00:34:16
    This wouldn't be a new construction.
  • 00:34:18
    That would be cost prohibitive.
  • 00:34:20
    So you'd be looking at us maybe retenneting a space that potentially was a grocery store at some point in time or a space that could have a size
  • 00:34:31
    that would make sense for a new grocery store to operate.
  • 00:34:34
    On the margins, you're right, significantly thin margins on grocery stores.
  • 00:34:38
    You're seeing that in North Market.
  • 00:34:40
    We're also seeing that in the small community-based grocers, whether publicly-minded or a for-profit entity, and the larger grocery stores.
  • 00:34:48
    We're seeing that in grocery stores, the grocery store markets.
  • 00:34:51
    The large grocery stores of a generation ago are the small urban ones.
  • 00:34:55
    I think of the ones like the Cubs that are on Lake Street,
  • 00:35:00
    The Westside and the Eastside, those are actually small in the market.
  • 00:35:02
    We see the newer grocers building bigger floor plates for services and having a myriad of services.
  • 00:35:11
    So think about Hyvees entering into the market.
  • 00:35:15
    and they have more than just groceries in the deli and that sort of thing.
  • 00:35:17
    They sell clothes and they have a bar and restaurant and other things that that are drawing people and that has had significant impact on the smaller grocers in Minneapolis and we've seen that especially those larger opportunities to do a grocery store on the border in the suburban communities.
  • 00:35:37
    So in Richfield or
  • 00:35:38
    or in Brooklyn Center or in Robbinsdale that has kind of sucked the trade area.
  • 00:35:45
    So it's very challenging to do grocery in urban areas.
  • 00:35:50
    So that's to think about it.
  • 00:35:53
    It's gonna be a portion.
  • 00:35:54
    We're not certain if this will be successful to get to where that we don't have that data right now.
  • 00:35:59
    We just know it's expensive to get a tenant to find a space to fit it out with all of the racking
  • 00:36:07
    Coolers and all the things you need and then to get the not only to have the inventory but to have the relationships to the distributors so Organization like Cub or or Aldi will have that connection a startup is gonna is gonna pay more on the wholesale market than You'd see in this other with the better buying process.
  • 00:36:28
    So there's there's a lot of headwinds in a grocery store and
  • 00:36:31
    Creation in Minneapolis That's why we don't see a lot of them and we don't see them in certain areas because the the trade areas of the larger Things kind of suck them all down
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:36:40
    Thank you.
  • 00:36:43
    You know Councilmember Cashman mentioned this and it's a good point is what are the some of the city costs that we need to take in to for a grocery store to open in our business.
  • 00:36:54
    I know we've been able to help some with green cost share types of loans.
  • 00:36:58
    Are there other ways that you know of that we help grocery stores locally through CPED?
• • Erik HansenDirector of CPED
  • 00:37:05
    Chair Choctaw, Council Member Palmisano, our typical commercial products are available.
  • 00:37:11
    So ownership and opportunity fund, the 2% loan program, facade programs, those are typically what we can offer.
  • 00:37:18
    There's not anything specific to groceries.
  • 00:37:21
    The health department I think has some programs around having healthy foods and the green cost share is also the health department.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:37:30
    Thank you.
  • 00:37:31
    Those seem like ways that help largely across the city that we can help grocery stores and grocery stores in trouble.
  • 00:37:41
    Grocery stores do pay a lot in energy costs and I'll just mention to my colleagues that on Thursday we'll consider a different topic that might raise those energy costs with an increase to the franchise fee.
  • 00:37:52
    Thank you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:37:57
    Thank you.
  • 00:37:58
    Alright, next I'll recognize Councilmember Vita.
  • 00:38:03
    Thank you.
• • Katie Cashman
  • 00:38:03
    Director Hanson, just a clarifying question.
  • 00:38:07
    You said that like a previous store or a previous space could be used.
  • 00:38:14
    Just for clarification, are you saying like the Worth Co-op was in the building on Golden Valley Road
  • 00:38:22
    I don't think they stay open for over a year but they were operating as a grocery store like that would be something that could come back or you know like into that space that was outfitted for a grocery store from but I think Northpoint used it as a food shelf at one point too so like you're saying that sort of space in that kind of organization
• • Erik HansenDirector of CPED
  • 00:38:45
    I'm saying that a newly constructed grocery store, this would not help.
  • 00:38:55
    You'd have to look for space.
  • 00:38:56
    I think that Worth Co-op space is too small.
  • 00:38:59
    That's one of the reasons it didn't operate.
  • 00:39:00
    Yes, North Point did operate it as a food shelf.
  • 00:39:03
    but it does not have the floor space to operate at a profitable market.
  • 00:39:10
    North Market is probably the smallest we're gonna see so you're gonna have to look for buildings like that or former Aldi they've moved around but you're gonna need like somewhere north of 15,000 square feet in order for it to work and even then they're gonna be on some pretty tight margins.
• • Katie Cashman
  • 00:39:25
    Okay, thank you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:39:27
    Not seeing anyone else in queue.
  • 00:39:30
    Clerk, please call the roll on the revised number 31, Grocery Store Development Funding.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:39:35
    Councilmember Payne.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:39:37
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:39:37
    Wonsley.
  • 00:39:38
    Aye.
  • 00:39:39
    Rainville.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:39:39
    No.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:39:40
    Vita.
  • 00:39:41
    No.
  • 00:39:42
    Osman.
  • 00:39:43
    Aye.
  • 00:39:44
    Cashman.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:39:45
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:39:46
    Jenkins.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:39:47
    Nay.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:39:49
    Chavez.
• • SPEAKER_09
  • 00:39:50
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:39:51
    Choudry.
  • 00:39:52
    Aye.
  • 00:39:53
    Palmisano.
  • 00:39:54
    No.
  • 00:39:55
    Vice Chair Koski.
• • 00:39:57
    Aye.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:39:59
    Chair Chuktay Aye That is 8 ayes and 4 nays That motion carries Next is amendment number 32 Commercial Adaptive Reuse Study offered by Councilmember Cashman Councilmember Cashman will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:40:18
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
  • 00:40:19
    This amendment before us is a $125,000 one-time appropriation within CPED to study the public benefit of and evaluate financial incentives for adaptive reuse of underutilized commercial buildings.
  • 00:40:37
    so yesterday in our budget committee we heard from the q three financial status presentation that property taxes are projected to be seventeen point four million dollars under budget we also saw in the city assessors twenty twenty five report that the estimated market value of downtown commercial property values fell nine point five percent from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five
  • 00:41:02
    and we are seeing in-person work still at just 75% of its pre-COVID levels as of late 2025 and we have taken some steps as a city to incentivize the conversion of office buildings into housing to become a more productive use for downtown with the zoning code reforms that we passed last year but we have not really explored a financial incentive to make this happen and while we understand the barriers that exist to
  • 00:41:32
    We don't fully understand the public benefit and I would like us as a city to study that public benefit to model the benefits of converting a building like the North Star Center, right?
  • 00:41:48
    In the center of downtown, it converted from a vacant office into 500 units of housing and that of course lowers the property tax rate because it goes from a commercial rate to a residential rate
  • 00:42:00
    but at the same time
  • 00:42:16
    with the force that we need.
  • 00:42:18
    I believe that we need to have better metrics and modeling to support the policies that will continue to push for the state legislature here at the city moving forward.
  • 00:42:28
    So I will move this study for approval and ask for your support.
• • SPEAKER_09
  • 00:42:32
    Second.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:42:33
    We have that amendment number 32 has been properly moved and seconded.
  • 00:42:37
    Is there any discussion?
  • 00:42:42
    Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:42:44
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
  • 00:42:46
    I think the success of the grooved lofts have shown us that this can be done.
  • 00:42:50
    I am curious about what the barriers are preventing more of this reuse.
  • 00:42:56
    We certainly have enough empty buildings, but I also know it's extraordinarily expensive to do this right now, so maybe some other help will be helpful in this area.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:43:07
    So thank you for this amendment.
  • 00:43:10
    Not seeing any further discussion, Clerk, please call the roll on Amendment Number 32, Commercial Adoptive Reuse Study Councilmember Payne?
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:43:19
    Aye.
  • 00:43:19
    Wonsley?
  • 00:43:20
    Aye.
  • 00:43:21
    Rainville?
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 00:43:21
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:43:22
    Vita?
• • Katie Cashman
  • 00:43:23
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:43:24
    Osmond?
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 00:43:25
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:43:25
    Cashman?
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 00:43:26
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:43:27
    Jenkins?
  • 00:43:28
    Aye.
  • 00:43:28
    Chavez?
  • 00:43:29
    Aye.
  • 00:43:30
    Chaudhry?
  • 00:43:31
    Aye.
  • 00:43:32
    Palmisano?
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:43:33
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:43:34
    Vice Chair Koski?
  • 00:43:35
    Aye.
  • 00:43:36
    Chair Chugtai?
  • 00:43:37
    Aye.
  • 00:43:37
    That is 12 ayes.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:43:40
    That motion carries.
  • 00:43:42
    We are next going to move to amendment number 33, which is vacant retail activation offered by Councilmember Cashman and myself.
  • 00:43:53
    I will recognize Councilmember Cashman to please introduce and move approval of this item.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 00:43:59
    Thank you Madam Chair and thank you for co-authoring this amendment with me.
  • 00:44:02
    This is another economic development proposal to address the retail vacancies that we're seeing citywide.
  • 00:44:09
    The proposal is for a cost share program for vacant retail activation which would support property owners actually making physical changes to their buildings to allow for the tenants
  • 00:44:23
    retail tenants to come in, whether that's subdividing their space into smaller spaces that would be more affordable to local small businesses, or even adding doors to allow for shoppers to be able to get into buildings, which we're seeing as well.
  • 00:44:37
    And this would be a cost share program, so we'd really be leveraging private investment as well at the same time.
  • 00:44:42
    I did write a pretty detailed proposal here, but of course this would be in the hands of CPED to develop the program, and it is
  • 00:44:52
    of the
  • 00:45:12
    funding improvements of the physical spaces to make it affordable for small businesses to rent in the long term.
  • 00:45:19
    And I think the economy of the future is really supporting smaller square footage in our retail spaces so that our local businesses can afford the cost of rent.
  • 00:45:29
    So I will move approval of this item.
  • 00:45:31
    Is there a second?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:45:33
    Second.
  • 00:45:33
    We have a proper motion before us.
  • 00:45:36
    Is there any discussion?
  • 00:45:38
    Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:45:40
    Thank you Madam Chair.
  • 00:45:41
    I want to point out that this amendment along with amendments 26 and 27 transfers 2.2 million dollars from downtown assets.
  • 00:45:51
    While I understand this amendment is meant to just reduce empty retail space at a time that we're trying to revitalize downtown, that is a lot of money coming all from the same source here.
  • 00:46:02
    So I wanted to point that out.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:46:04
    Thank you.
  • 00:46:05
    Thank you.
  • 00:46:06
    Is there any further discussion?
  • 00:46:08
    Going once, going twice, not seeing any.
  • 00:46:11
    Clerk, please call the roll on Amendment Number 33, Vacant Retail Activation.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:46:15
    Councilmember Payne.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:46:16
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:46:17
    Wonsley.
  • 00:46:18
    Aye.
  • 00:46:18
    Rainville.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:46:19
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:46:19
    Vita.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:46:20
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:46:21
    That motion carries.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:46:38
    Next up is Amendment Number 34, Invest in Childcare Workers offered by Councilmember Wonsley.
  • 00:46:46
    Councilmember Wonsley, will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:46:49
    Yes, thank you Council Vice President Chuktai.
  • 00:46:53
    This amendment builds off of work and investments made by the council in the city last budget cycle to support the expansion of the child care workforce which has been identified as a strategy in addressing the high cost of child care for working families in our city.
  • 00:47:10
    This earmarked
  • 00:47:11
    about $102,000 in CPES Workforce Development Fund which has an approved budget of $14 million.
  • 00:47:19
    It will support funding at FTE that will help residents interested in early child care education get plugged into the correct pathways and programs.
  • 00:47:28
    This was brought forward
  • 00:47:30
    out of many conversations with stakeholders including Minneapolis Public Schools and other local child care providers and conversations with those stakeholders and other experts in the field have consistently focused on the huge role that workforce shortest plays in increasing the cost of child care and how beneficial it would be to create clearer
  • 00:47:51
    This funding will of course have a massive impact on increasing the early child care workforce which will help local residents and workers and
  • 00:48:17
    City Council.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:48:39
    so extraordinarily timely and oddly it pairs with our previous amendment around grocery store access.
  • 00:48:48
    I actually have a new Aldi coming into the ward and the current development plan is to have that Aldi have a condo for a child care center and the developer is trying to work with a child care development organization that
  • 00:49:06
    the kind of similar to the grocery store model.
  • 00:49:09
    The child care centers are running on really tight margins as well.
  • 00:49:15
    And there's some internecine tax policy around seminary centers of learning that are qualifying for
  • 00:49:25
    Thank you.
  • 00:49:27
    Next I'll recognize Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 00:49:55
    Thank you Madam Chair.
  • 00:49:56
    Minneapolis Public Schools already has a career pathways program for pre-k through sixth grade.
  • 00:50:02
    It's in partnership with Mankato State and Metro State and that's about all I know about it.
  • 00:50:09
    Perhaps others know more here, but I really don't think it makes sense to reinvent the wheel and have CPED stand up a brand new program utilizing an FTE when this other program already exists.
  • 00:50:24
    Council Member Wonsley
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:50:43
    Yeah, thank you, CBP Checkside.
  • 00:50:45
    Just for clarity for Councilmember Palmisano, there is a distinct difference, and I think you know this as someone who has school-age children, between preschool and early childhood education.
  • 00:50:55
    Early childhood education comes before preschool.
  • 00:50:58
    That is where we have a gap and where we're seeing the greatest need amongst families who have to pay either child care providers to provide educational and also child care opportunities to their
  • 00:51:11
    to the youngest members of their families until they are preschool ready and can go either through a public school or non-public school track.
  • 00:51:20
    So these are distinctly different and the gap is really focused in on early childhood education and that is not a space where we see NPS is filling which is why they've been part of these conversations with our office and city staff around
  • 00:51:34
    how we can work together to create this FTE position to support a pathway program.
  • 00:51:40
    So we have great partners at the table both at NPS, also at the state level who are really excited about that and again we'll encourage my colleagues to support.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:51:52
    Seeing no further discussion, Clerk please call the roll on Amendment Number 34, Invest in Child Care Workers.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:51:58
    Council Member Payne.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:51:59
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:51:59
    Wonsley.
  • 00:52:00
    Aye.
  • 00:52:01
    Rainville.
  • 00:52:02
    Aye.
  • 00:52:04
    That is 11 ayes and 1 nays
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:52:22
    That motion carries.
  • 00:52:25
    Next we are ready to move to amendment number 35, Enterprise Policy Management System Staff Direction offered by Council President Payne.
  • 00:52:35
    Council President Payne will you please introduce and move approval of this amendment and make sure to just note that this is a zero dollar amendment and just walk through some of the context so everyone is aware.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:52:47
    Thank you Vice President Chagtai.
  • 00:52:49
    As we discussed in our last COW, we are moving forward with a policy management platform.
  • 00:52:55
    This was a budget amendment last year.
  • 00:52:57
    We are very much on our way to getting a vendor identified.
  • 00:53:02
    It's just the timing of it all.
  • 00:53:03
    These funds need to be rolled over and we need to take this action so that we can actually leverage those funds that were allocated for this year's budget.
  • 00:53:14
    Mr.
  • 00:53:14
    Clerk, did you want to speak to this at all?
• • SPEAKER_10
  • 00:53:18
    Through the Chair, Mr. President, I appreciate that summary.
  • 00:53:22
    This is an enterprise-wide project to provide the funding to acquire a new system to manage the process of both bringing forward and developing policies, but also of managing and making those policies available to the public.
  • 00:53:39
    So I appreciate the support for that.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:53:42
    Is there a second to Council President Payne's motion?
  • 00:53:47
    The item has been properly moved and seconded.
  • 00:53:50
    Is there any discussion?
  • 00:53:54
    I'm not seeing any.
  • 00:53:55
    Clerk, please call the roll on amendment number 35, Enterprise Policy Management System Staff Directive.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:54:01
    Council Member Payne?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:54:02
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:54:03
    Wonsley?
  • 00:54:03
    Aye.
  • 00:54:04
    Rainville?
  • 00:54:05
    Aye.
  • 00:54:05
    Bata?
  • 00:54:06
    Aye.
  • 00:54:06
    Osmond?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:54:07
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:54:08
    Cashman?
  • 00:54:08
    Aye.
  • 00:54:09
    Jenkins?
  • 00:54:10
    Aye.
  • 00:54:11
    That motion carries.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:54:23
    Next up is amendment number 36, Policy for the People, and we will take up 36A and B together.
  • 00:54:31
    This amendment is offered by Councilmember Wonsley.
  • 00:54:34
    A revision to this was passed out
  • 00:54:38
    I believe on Friday or yesterday but there's a second revision and it's also in yellow and the top of it reads number 36, second revision.
  • 00:54:51
    Councilmember Wonsley, please introduce and move approval of your amendment.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 00:54:55
    Thank you Council Vice President Chuktai.
  • 00:54:58
    Since coming into office my priority post-government structure has always been to ensure the development and growth of the legislative branch and making sure that we have the resources and infrastructure that we need to carry out our responsibilities and authorities to serve the 400 plus thousand residents that we all represent across the city.
  • 00:55:19
    and ensuring funding is available for the legislative body to do that work complements us needing FTEs to carry that out and specifically to carry out research, evaluation, oversight and policy expertise needs that support our work as well.
  • 00:55:40
    this motion in front of you essentially repurposes the very original motion where we were looking to pull FTEs from the administrative side to essentially use already existing FTE positions that's within the legislative department or the city clerk's office that's actually already in motion for classification and those positions would be supporting the very specific committees that
  • 00:56:09
    actually carry a bulk of our work on the legislative process.
  • 00:56:13
    So I'm very grateful to know that our clerk staff has been prioritizing its work to make sure we get these FTEs as opposed to us having to find new resources to support that.
  • 00:56:25
    So the $25,000 that you see reflected is appropriation that would be made from the legislative department to HR to ensure that the JFQs and class classifications that would need to happen to get us those additional positions would receive the proper support needed.
  • 00:56:45
    We actually have to use the support of a vendor that does that classification because there is such a huge backlog for our internal HR team who are also responsible for those.
  • 00:56:55
    so we'll be guaranteed support through that vendor with this appropriation and then the subsequent motion is a staff directive to the legislative department making sure that we get a report back on the progress for getting those FTEs, the classifications, the JAQ just making sure we're moving along with the actual formalization of those positions for no later than March of 2026.
  • 00:57:21
    So just closing the loop or making sure we get those positions.
  • 00:57:25
    So those are what those two motions do and I will move those items for approval and ask for a second.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:57:32
    Is there a second?
  • 00:57:34
    Second.
  • 00:57:34
    That item has been properly moved and seconded.
  • 00:57:36
    I will note as you can see in your binder the very first draft of this amendment was taking approximately half a million dollars ongoing out of the the mayor's office department.
  • 00:57:50
    and I'm really grateful to the author, to Councilmember Wansley here for her willingness to be flexible and find a creative solution here that is an alternative to such a significant reduction to the mayor's office and thank you for again your willingness to collaborate and compromise and come to the table.
  • 00:58:16
    and I'm glad we were able to find a solution that moves us forward.
  • 00:58:22
    Is there any further discussion?
  • 00:58:25
    Not seeing any.
  • 00:58:28
    Clerk, please call the roll on amendment number 36, including both the motion and the staff direction.
  • 00:58:35
    This amendment is policy for the people.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:58:38
    Councilmember Payne?
  • 00:58:39
    Aye.
  • 00:58:40
    Wonsley?
  • 00:58:41
    Aye.
  • 00:58:41
    Rainville?
  • 00:58:42
    Aye.
  • 00:58:42
    Mehta?
• • 00:58:43
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:58:44
    Osmond?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:58:45
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:58:46
    Cashman?
  • 00:58:47
    Aye.
  • 00:58:48
    Jenkins?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:58:49
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:58:49
    Chavez?
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:58:50
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:58:51
    Chaudry?
  • 00:58:52
    Aye.
  • 00:58:52
    Palasano?
  • 00:58:53
    Aye.
  • 00:58:54
    Vice Chair Koski?
  • 00:58:55
    Aye.
  • 00:58:56
    And Chair Chigtai?
  • 00:58:57
    Aye.
  • 00:58:58
    That is 12 ayes.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 00:59:00
    That motion carries.
  • 00:59:02
    Next up is amendment number 37, Audit Department FTEs offered by Council President Payne, Council Member Chowdhury, and Vice Chair Koski.
  • 00:59:14
    Council President Payne, will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 00:59:18
    Thank you Vice President Chuktai.
  • 00:59:20
    This amendment is to, the city auditor presented a vision for the department that included a build out of the special review and advisory services.
  • 00:59:32
    This is essentially two years in the making.
  • 00:59:35
    We originally created the office of, or the division of oversight and, what was that one, oversight and evaluation and policy and research within the auditor's office.
  • 00:59:48
    We worked with the city attorney.
  • 00:59:50
    Those functions were identified to be better suited working directly within the legislative department, not as a part of our independent auditor.
  • 00:59:58
    Mr. Timmerman, who is in the audience, brought forward a proposal to try to build out that vision of a strength and oversight capability within the auditor's department that is the Special Review and Advisory Services and has given us very clear guidance that
  • 01:00:17
    his intent is to you know take on large issues in the city when it comes to oversight as evidenced by the willingness to take on the investigation of the shooting of Davis maturity the investigation of the death of Allison Lucher and you know we got to a point where he was running out of capacity as we were running into a higher need for oversight and and so for
  • 01:00:47
    is really aimed at making sure that our city auditor has the capacity to say yes.
  • 01:00:58
    I'll also note that we worked really closely with our budget team starting at the beginning of the year.
  • 01:01:04
    We identified four FTEs to move over to the auditor's office.
  • 01:01:09
    With the vision of a multi-year build-out, the mayor actually cut two of those positions in his recommended budget.
  • 01:01:17
    I wanted to restore those positions and do the full build-out as a result of that cut.
  • 01:01:22
    I want to actually thank
  • 01:01:23
    Vice President Chuck Ty for her leadership to work with the administration to actually get us to a source that was amenable to the administration.
  • 01:01:33
    She moved heaven and earth to try to get to a place where everybody can support this and so I'm grateful to the administration's work on that as well and I will move approval of this item and ask for a second.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:01:50
    That amendment number 37 has been properly moved and seconded.
  • 01:01:54
    I want to note for colleagues this is the revised number 37 that we are looking at and again want to thank the authors for their incredible diligence and willingness to collaborate, compromise, come to the table and really
  • 01:02:17
    I'm grateful for the product that's before us today.
  • 01:02:20
    Is there any further discussion?
  • 01:02:22
    I will recognize Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 01:02:26
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
  • 01:02:27
    I really appreciate that many people have come to the table to figure out a way to fund this amendment.
  • 01:02:33
    It took quite a bit of work and collaboration and also trust between one another.
  • 01:02:38
    I chaired the Audit Committee for 10 years and there's nobody more
  • 01:02:44
    than I that understands the importance of the Office of the City Auditor.
  • 01:02:48
    That does give me a unique perspective.
  • 01:02:51
    I will say this, this department has grown quite a bit over the past couple of years.
  • 01:02:56
    Now we're adding four more positions, replacing two that were removed and vacant plus an additional two.
  • 01:03:04
    And we've all seen departments that have grown too fast.
  • 01:03:06
    I will support this today because of the trust involved here on all sides.
  • 01:03:11
    But I do want to caution us to give audit a chance to absorb these new positions and be responsible about their growth.
  • 01:03:19
    This department is too important to not be monitoring its ability to incorporate all these new positions in the work that they are intended to do.
  • 01:03:28
    Thank you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:03:29
    Thank you, and finally I'll recognize Councilmember Cashman.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:03:33
    Thank you Madam Chair.
  • 01:03:34
    I appreciate that everybody was working to compromise here, but I do have some concerns that Public Works and CPED are getting their positions taken instead of the mayor's office positions, politically appointed positions, and I'm wondering how it came to be that
  • 01:03:53
    You know, the mayor and his negotiating team came to agree that public works and CPED positions should be taken for this.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:04:02
    That's an excellent question, Councilmember Cashman.
  • 01:04:05
    I'm going to ask Director DeCenza if we can get COO Anderson-Kellher here.
  • 01:04:13
    While we're doing that, I will attempt to first respond to your question.
  • 01:04:19
    These are all positions that are vacant.
  • 01:04:23
    They were identified by the negotiating team that the mayor identified as we work through this markup packet and I can't speak further to why these were the positions that were picked and so I think that's something the COO can do or we can see
  • 01:04:45
    if Mr. Jelly or, you know, I see we have both the CPED and the Public Works Directors here.
  • 01:04:53
    I don't know if we want to invite them up to just talk about these vacancies.
  • 01:04:58
    All right, the Deputy COO it is.
  • 01:05:08
    There we go, rock, paper, scissors.
  • 01:05:12
    If you'll first begin by introducing yourself.
• • SPEAKER_11
  • 01:05:14
    Good morning, Council Members.
  • 01:05:17
    Brett Shelley, Deputy City Operations Officer for Development, Health, and Livability.
  • 01:05:22
    I will speak the best I can to the conversations.
  • 01:05:24
    I was not in the room with Council Vice President, but as we were working through budget amendments and trying to find sources that both sides could agree to, we worked with all departments and reviewed
  • 01:05:42
    current vacancies and we're able to find the positions that are in the amendment or something that our side we could support and agree with just to make sure we had a deal.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:05:56
    All right, thanks.
  • 01:05:56
    I just wanted to point out that, you know, I think the mayor put out a commentary in the Star Tribune saying it was mean-spirited to cut from his staff, but at the end of the day, he's the CEO of the city, and all 4,000 staff are his staff, and so I think it's right to be equally concerned about staff and CPED and public works, as it is the many, you know, politically appointed policy aides in his office, and I think
  • 01:06:18
    what I'm seeing here is that these are vacant positions and so there's no one being laid off by this cut and so I think that was a line that was drawn but just wanted to point out that you know that that these are still that these are still the mayor's staff as well.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:06:34
    Certainly.
  • 01:06:35
    And do you do you want us to invite up either of the directors and
  • 01:06:44
    or has your question been sufficiently answered?
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:06:46
    And the public works in particular, transportation planning and programming and transportation operations, mobility, what would be the impact of those cuts to public works if Director Sexton can speak to that?
• • Tim Sexton
  • 01:07:03
    Welcome.
  • 01:07:04
    Thank you, Chair Chuktai, Councilmember Cashman.
  • 01:07:07
    In terms of impacts, you know,
  • 01:07:11
    The Transportation Planning and Programming staff do bring our projects up to 30% design.
  • 01:07:17
    They lead the public engagement.
  • 01:07:20
    So reductions in that area will reduce the level of public engagement we can do, will slow down project development.
  • 01:07:27
    And then in Traffic and Parking Services, where the other position is coming from, I believe that one is in our sign shop, and they're responsible for printing signs and being able to respond quickly, whether it's things like the Lena Smith Boulevard,
  • 01:07:41
    changeover or the recent signs that we posted related to prohibiting ice in city, use of city parking lots.
  • 01:07:50
    So reducing staff, while it's not like we cannot do a single task, it will slow down and impact the things that we do.
  • 01:07:57
    That said, it's, you know, when you look at the total combination of all cuts to public works as part of, that have been approved thus far,
  • 01:08:05
    We are looking at six staff and over almost $500,000 It's difficult to say specific items that we can or cannot do because of the type of work that we engage in but there will be impacts, things will be slowed down or there will be things throughout the year that we cannot get to
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:08:23
    I appreciate you advocating for your department.
  • 01:08:27
    Every department has given some in this in these negotiations I know even the legislative department gave to cover co-enforcement to restore those cuts and Yeah, I guess I'm just disappointed that instead of cutting from politically appointed political operatives in the city we're cutting from more core city services positions for this
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:08:47
    And I will once again clarify, these are all vacant positions.
  • 01:08:51
    So there isn't a current service that is being provided that will then go away or have a layoff unfold.
  • 01:09:03
    But appreciate the conversation and the discussion.
  • 01:09:05
    I'm not seeing anyone else in queue.
  • 01:09:08
    Clerk, please call the roll on the revised amendment number 37, Audit Department FTEs.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 01:09:13
    Councilmember Payne?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:09:15
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 01:09:15
    Wonsley?
  • 01:09:16
    Aye.
  • 01:09:16
    Rainville?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:09:17
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 01:09:18
    Vita?
  • 01:09:19
    Aye.
  • 01:09:19
    Osmond?
  • 01:09:20
    Aye.
  • 01:09:21
    Cashman?
  • 01:09:22
    Aye.
  • 01:09:22
    Jenkins?
• • SPEAKER_10
  • 01:09:23
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 01:09:24
    Chavez?
• • SPEAKER_10
  • 01:09:25
    Aye.
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 01:09:25
    Chaudry?
  • 01:09:26
    Aye.
  • 01:09:27
    Palmisano?
  • 01:09:28
    Aye.
  • 01:09:29
    Vice Chair Koski?
  • 01:09:30
    Aye.
  • 01:09:31
    And Chair Chugtay?
  • 01:09:32
    Aye.
  • 01:09:33
    That is 12 ayes.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:09:35
    That motion carries.
  • 01:09:37
    Next up is amendment number 38 around budgetary control financial policy offered by myself, Vice Chair Koski and Council Member Wonsley.
  • 01:09:50
    I will introduce this amendment and move approval and then we will go to the city attorney who will walk through what is actually in this amendment in detail.
  • 01:10:01
    So
  • 01:10:02
    I will say with intention this is a budget cycle that I am the lead author on just this amendment alone and it is a change to financial policies and a zero dollar amendment at its core.
  • 01:10:18
    So, you know, I think we are, in the years that I have been a member of this council, I think there is a real need for us to build some guard rails around
  • 01:10:35
    around how money is spent once it has been allocated through the budget process and building some accountability.
  • 01:10:45
    And so these are a few sections to the financial policies that ultimately are all trying to address pieces of that accountability.
  • 01:11:00
    With that, I'm going to ask for a second and then we'll go to the city attorney.
  • 01:11:05
    Madam City Attorney, can you please walk us through what is in this amendment.
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 01:11:11
    Thank you, Madam Chair, Council members.
  • 01:11:15
    So I'm going to try to in both sort of simply enough but also in detail explain what this financial policy does.
  • 01:11:25
    Overall, it's amendments to the budgetary controls policy and the purposes are both to clarify portions of the policy that have always been there.
  • 01:11:36
    and also add new requirements to aid in budgetary transparency.
  • 01:11:41
    So let me just step through each of the sections.
  • 01:11:45
    As you know, we already have a budgetary controls policy.
  • 01:11:49
    It is much shorter than what is before you, so I'm going to try to highlight the things that are the same and the things that are different.
  • 01:11:56
    So the very first section is called Legal Level of Budgetary Control, Budget Amendments and Reporting.
  • 01:12:03
    This first section of the policy repeats what was already in the policy and codifies legal fact.
  • 01:12:10
    Under our charter, through the annual budget process, the council annually appropriates money for each department's programs and operations.
  • 01:12:18
    This annual departmental budget we refer to in this policy and have defined it as department slash fund level budget.
  • 01:12:26
    This is the same term that exists in the current financial policy.
  • 01:12:31
    But let me explain what this means.
  • 01:12:33
    I'll give you an example from my office's budget and I'm going to try to weave in some examples using my office's budget because that's what I understand and I think it might be helpful for general understanding.
  • 01:12:46
    So in the 2025 department fund level budget for my office, so department would be city attorney's office, fund is general fund.
  • 01:12:57
    And for 2025, my department slash fund level budget was about $23 million.
  • 01:13:02
    So that's what I'm going to talk about.
  • 01:13:05
    So even though sometimes we present budgetary data in a more granular way, so for my office say $10 million for the Civil Division and $13 million for the Criminal Division, the department slash fund level budget is that top line appropriation to my office of $23 million.
  • 01:13:24
    So under this policy, as was true under the existing policy, departments are not authorized to amend or exceed their departmental budget that was approved during the annual budget process without council approval.
  • 01:13:37
    So I can't, as a department head without council approval, amend my budget to be $24 million instead of $23 million.
  • 01:13:45
    There are some exceptions to this that I will come back to.
  • 01:13:48
    But, just like is true under the current policy, within my $23 million budget, I have the authority to exercise operational control to administer my $23 million budget, which includes the authority to shift funds within my department budget as I deem appropriate to carry out my department's functions.
  • 01:14:08
    So, for example,
  • 01:14:09
    If I have an attorney position in the Criminal Division but I decide that because of all of the federal litigation we've become involved in that I need that position in the Civil Division, I have the authority to shift those funds from the Criminal Division to the Civil Division without approval as long as I stay within my $23 million departmental budget, that department-slash-fund-level budget against City Attorney's Office General Fund.
  • 01:14:31
    As I said previously, there are some important exceptions in charter to the general proposition that departments can't exceed their budgets without council approval and those are also addressed in this policy now.
  • 01:14:43
    So number one, the charter gives the finance department the administrative authority to authorize payments that may exceed the department's budget in order to pay payroll.
  • 01:14:52
    That's explicit.
  • 01:14:53
    and Number 2, the charter permits the council by ordinance to authorize the payment of routine claims and bills.
  • 01:14:59
    Both of these exceptions are important to ensure the city satisfies its legal payment obligations.
  • 01:15:05
    So, another example.
  • 01:15:07
    If the council votes to approve a labor agreement with the attorney's union midway through the year, giving raises that weren't accounted for in my annual departmental budget, finance can lawfully pay the attorney's salaries even if the amount ultimately exceeds my $23 million budget.
  • 01:15:23
    What's new in this policy, though, is explicitly requiring transparency.
  • 01:15:28
    Under this policy, any of these administrative authorizations must be included in the finance department's next quarterly report.
  • 01:15:35
    So that's the first section.
  • 01:15:37
    Moving on, second section is called Council Dedicated Funds.
  • 01:15:41
    This policy newly addresses council earmarks and we have defined those we've used the term council dedicated funds in the policy and define it there.
  • 01:15:51
    These earmarks are captured in your budget amendments dedicating funds for a specific purpose.
  • 01:15:56
    For example, the earmark of funds to the Office of Immigrant and Refugee Affairs for the purpose of providing community engagement and support for immigrant and refugee communities.
  • 01:16:08
    the policy provides for both controls and reporting so under the policy number one the earmarked funds can't be used for different purposes without council approval the policy provides that the administration may request council approval for reallocation number two
  • 01:16:25
    the administration must report by April 30th on its spending plan for the earmarks and the status report by August 31st.
  • 01:16:32
    And number three, if the administration determines it can't carry out the purpose of the earmarks for whatever reason, or if it determines the earmark is for more money than necessary, it needs to report within 60 days of that determination the amount, the reason, the effect on carrying out the earmarks purpose and any other relevant information.
  • 01:16:51
    Moving on.
  • 01:16:52
    Next section is called Reporting of Anticipated Overspending.
  • 01:16:58
    The policy creates another reporting requirement on departmental spending.
  • 01:17:03
    Under the policy, number one, if at the time of the quarterly finance department report, a department exceeds the prorated amount of the departmental budget, again, that department slash fund level budget, which would be for me my $23 million budget, the department must report it to council with a proposed correction action plan, if applicable.
  • 01:17:22
    So for an example, say at quarter two I've already spent more than half of my $23 million budget, I would report that.
  • 01:17:29
    That does not necessarily mean that I'm on target to go over budget.
  • 01:17:33
    Bills tend to come in at different times of the year.
  • 01:17:35
    So if I had a big bill due in the first half of the year and I know that I have sufficient funds in my budget to pay for everything else in the second half of the year, I would just explain that in my report and wouldn't need a corrective action plan.
  • 01:17:47
    Number two.
  • 01:17:48
    If at any time a department reasonably expects that by the end of the year it is going to go over budget, the department has to promptly notify finance and include that information in the next quarterly report.
  • 01:18:01
    3.
  • 01:18:02
    If by the end of the year the department actually has exceeded its annual department budget, then the next year the department must submit monthly budgetary status reports to the council.
  • 01:18:15
    4.
  • 01:18:16
    As another check within the system, the Legislative Department will have access to the City's financial systems, which is also another transparency measure.
  • 01:18:26
    To maintain the integrity of those systems, that access will be restricted to view-only capability and subject to the Finance Department's normal operating policies and procedures.
  • 01:18:36
    And then the final section is called lapses and rollover.
  • 01:18:40
    And I believe it's identical, if not close to identical, to what has already been in there.
  • 01:18:45
    But I might as well explain it as long as I'm on a roll.
  • 01:18:48
    So this section of the policy, again, same as the current policy, unspent appropriations generally lapse at the end of the year and money goes back to the fund from whence they came.
  • 01:18:59
    But there is a rollover process where appropriations that are unspent but are encumbered
  • 01:19:05
    which means obligated for example through an executed contract can be authorized to continue rollover into the next budget year.
  • 01:19:12
    So for 2026, the City Attorney's Office budget might be $23 million plus $100,000 for an expert witness contract that was executed in 2025 for services to be rendered in 2026.
  • 01:19:25
    So that's essentially what's covered in that.
  • 01:19:28
    Thank you.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:19:30
    Thank you, Madam City Attorney.
  • 01:19:32
    I want to thank you, the Finance Department and the leaders of the Legislative Department for working together on crafting this amendment.
  • 01:19:46
    I will see if there are any questions or discussion.
  • 01:19:49
    Councilmember Palmisano.
• • Linea Palmisano
  • 01:19:51
    Madam Chair, I wanted to speak on this item and I had a chance to speak with you at length about it last night, so I will work to be brief.
  • 01:20:00
    I really did appreciate our conversation and your willingness to talk through this with me.
  • 01:20:07
    And at the point of last night, my first reaction was that while I take Council's role in oversight very seriously, I believed that this went too far.
  • 01:20:17
    It required so much added reporting that it felt
  • 01:20:20
    a bit punitive and I felt we needed to balance our agreed duty of oversight and excessive requirements that take staff away from their regular duties from the things that we expect them to be doing.
  • 01:20:34
    As Attorney Anderson pointed out, there are a lot of reasons our departments can go over budget and
  • 01:20:41
    you know we need to cast a wide net there.
  • 01:20:44
    Yes MPD and MFD go over budget for overtime a couple years ago and as we heard earlier the Assessor's Office was over budget in the past due to a wage study and then currently due to new technology.
  • 01:20:59
    I do think we can conduct our oversight duties without requiring constant reporting that requires a lot of time.
  • 01:21:07
    And this is the first of a few policy items today on our docket.
  • 01:21:11
    Two new ordinances we'll hear at COW that require a lot of reporting by staff.
  • 01:21:17
    But sitting with our conversation last night, Councilmember Chugtai and hearing Attorney Anderson's explanation today
  • 01:21:24
    and checking in with a couple of other people.
  • 01:21:27
    I do think that one, this was a big lift and I am eager to move in this direction and to be supportive of this today.
  • 01:21:35
    So thank you.
  • 01:21:36
    This clearly took quite a bit of work on your end to pull together.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:21:41
    Thank you, Council Member.
  • 01:21:43
    I'll recognize Council Member Cashman.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:21:45
    Thank you Madam Chair.
  • 01:21:46
    I'm a little concerned about small departments having to do this reporting.
  • 01:21:49
    Did you consider at all departments that might not have the resources to do support, to do reporting like the Assessor's Office who did go over budget but has a valid reason and process to ameliorate that issue?
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:22:01
    I think in one way or another, the reason a department would go over budget is justifiable in some way.
  • 01:22:11
    Whether that justification is acceptable to the body or to taxpayers is a different question.
  • 01:22:20
    Every single department, regardless of their size, meets with the budget office on a monthly basis to go over their budget and to review their prorated budgets by month and be able to project out when there will be an overage.
  • 01:22:40
    This work is already happening.
  • 01:22:45
    We don't have a line of sight into it outside of quarterly reporting.
  • 01:22:50
    Yesterday we received the third quarter financial status report and the controller's office correctly pointed out that the overage within the police department was something that we knew was going to happen all the way at the beginning of the year, but nobody up here was planning for such an overage and its impact on the bigger picture.
  • 01:23:12
    So this is about bringing line of sight into that and then also really reiterating to departments that their adopted budgets are not suggestions.
  • 01:23:23
    That is a formal act by the body and is something that everyone should be working to stay within target of even when there are real reasons not to.
  • 01:23:35
    and we'll accommodate that but that needs to come with a level of accountability too so that when departments are in the position where they have to come before us on a monthly basis to review their budgets that there is always like a high bar for what is a justifiable reason
  • 01:23:57
    for going over budget.
  • 01:23:59
    So we're, you know, trying to manage, so we have a line of sight into this, right?
  • 01:24:03
    We just received, again, third quarter financial status report yesterday, third quarter ended, we're near the end of the fourth quarter right now, so a bunch of time passes in between these things and it's important that we are staying on top of potential financial issues like the scale of MPD overspend.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:24:23
    I just have a couple other questions for you too.
  • 01:24:25
    does this work retroactively or is this only moving forward?
  • 01:24:29
    And the reason I ask is because in the last budget we moved money from the Mounted Patrol stable lease to fund a crime prevention specialist in the 5th precinct.
  • 01:24:37
    Office of Community Safety just decided, nope, we don't want to end the Mounted Patrol program and nope, we don't want to hire a crime prevention specialist and just didn't do it and that was something that I think was incredibly wrong and I'm wondering how this resolution addresses that.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:24:52
    Excellent question.
  • 01:24:52
    I'm going to go to the city attorney.
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 01:24:55
    Thank you, Madam Chair, Council members, this is prospective.
  • 01:25:00
    That means it's not retroactive.
  • 01:25:02
    It does not look back at earmarks from the 2025 budget.
  • 01:25:07
    This will be in effect for earmarks going forward that you just passed with the 2026 budget.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:25:12
    We'll start with the 2026 budget and we don't have any way to
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:25:16
    And it's a big part of why we put this in place because of the exact issues that you've outlined here and have brought up over the course of markup and over the course of this year.
• • Michael Cashman
  • 01:25:28
    Yeah, and I will keep talking about it because I think it wasn't right and it's something that the council needs to keep considering as they work with that department in particular moving forward.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:25:39
    Excellent, thank you.
  • 01:25:40
    Council Member Chowdhury followed by Council President Payne.
• • Aurin Chowdhury
  • 01:25:44
    I'll keep my remarks really brief.
  • 01:25:45
    I just wanted to say I appreciate this coming forward.
  • 01:25:49
    I think this is a really pragmatic, forward-looking policy.
  • 01:25:53
    I think this is also an outgrowth of government structure and how we as the council and the administration work together and communicate with one another with the change in government structure.
  • 01:26:11
    One of the things that I have seen as like
  • 01:26:13
    One of the barriers to success in our organization is these huge gaps in communication and being on the same page and as it comes to our budgetary controls and the amendments that we've made
  • 01:26:30
    and where they end up throughout a calendar year, that's been a huge hole that has, one, led to frustration, but two, like brass tacks, impacts our ability to budget in a way that's more collaborative.
  • 01:26:45
    And I think reporting is a good thing and we're probably going to need more in different parts of the organization as we try to figure out
  • 01:26:54
    Thank you, Council President Payne.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 01:27:05
    Thank you Vice President.
  • 01:27:07
    I'll echo some of the sentiment that Councilmember Chaudry is sharing around formalizing better communication.
  • 01:27:13
    I think one of the big themes of this term that I've had with the administration is that we can work informally or we can work formally.
  • 01:27:21
    We can look at the relationships that we've built or we can look at the charter.
  • 01:27:25
    And I think that as we have evolved into this new government structure,
  • 01:27:31
    and I think increasingly we are establishing a need for increasing levels of formality because there are such breakdowns and informal communication and I think you know it's shockingly timely that this is being brought forward because I mean one of the questions that was asked I think Councilmember Cashman asked this of our safety commissioner of you know what are you doing to prevent these types of overages and
  • 01:27:57
    In December, as we're finalizing our budget, they're saying they're going to start a conversation around more oversight.
  • 01:28:02
    That was as shocking to me as the actual dollar figure of the over-budget.
  • 01:28:07
    They should have known these problems at the beginning of the year and had those conversations started at the beginning of the year.
  • 01:28:15
    It's not even just a breakdown in communication between the legislative and executive sides of our government.
  • 01:28:21
    It was a breakdown in communication within administrative departments, right?
  • 01:28:26
    And so I think that this level of oversight and more importantly transparency is what's going to enable us to have much more informed, better governance conversations.
  • 01:28:37
    So this is just a win all around.
  • 01:28:39
    Thank you.
• • Robin Wonsley
  • 01:28:40
    Thank you, and finally I'll recognize Councilmember Wonsley.
  • 01:28:44
    Thank you, CVP Checked.
  • 01:28:45
    I just wanted to also share a few comments as a co-author and my intentions for also being part of this work.
  • 01:28:52
    It's actually aligned with something Councilmember Cashman mentioned of actually experiencing now multiple budget cycles where this council has made appropriations and we do not see the mayor then implement or execute them.
  • 01:29:04
    We're even seeing that
  • 01:29:20
    get executed this budget cycle and now we're having to do the restoration of that along with other like civilian investigators right now and as you mentioned crime prevention specialists, safety ambassadors, there's numerous examples to point to of this council fulfilling our authority making the appropriations based off of what we hear from our residents as top priorities and then not often seeing the administration be a willing partner to then do their part of executing on them regardless of how they feel about them or not.
  • 01:29:49
    um so I will name that was my intent and also not wanting to be um in another cycle next year of asking and doing legislative directives and trying to follow up or quote unquote micromanaging the administration on why they're not implementing the things that this council passed um and said we want to see be advanced we want to see be executed and that is your responsibility
  • 01:30:14
    and the technical term that we learned through this process for that is called impoundment.
  • 01:30:18
    When the executive does that we're actually seeing Congress now actually use impoundment actions because this is literally playing out by President Trump in many ways of not executing congressional air marks and other funding appropriations that's being made because our executive at the federal level also don't like them.
  • 01:30:38
    So we don't want to get to that level at the municipal side of things so this was one of the ways in which we were able to say let's figure out a policy solution to make sure there's greater transparency and oversight over the administration as it pertains to council's budget amendments because apparently that is where we have the greatest issue in seeing work be implemented and executed.
  • 01:30:59
    and I will even name throughout this budget cycle we've seen our own COO come forward and name multiple times this underlining we don't know if we'll implement this or we don't know if we'll implement one of these budget priorities and it's like if this body passed it it should be implemented it should not be
  • 01:31:18
    use as a political pawn of things.
  • 01:31:21
    We're simply trying to do our jobs.
  • 01:31:23
    We want the administration to do theirs and this essentially acts as guardrails for both of us to basically do the work that taxpayers and constituents sent us to do.
  • 01:31:33
    um so I'm really excited that we were able to get to this place to bring this policy forward.
  • 01:31:39
    I will know I'll be bringing a revision as well tonight that addresses something else that has come forward in this process around um greater monitoring around our legal settlement dollars um and I think we constantly hear that be used as a reason for dollars going out the door but no accounting for what what is it for it's just oh it's the legal settlement and it's
  • 01:32:00
    Next thing you know, we're $20 million over budget.
  • 01:32:04
    And that's not also appropriate.
  • 01:32:06
    So I want to name that will be coming tonight.
  • 01:32:09
    But that said, I'm grateful for my co-authors for working together, city staff to get to a place where we can bring this policy forward today.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:32:17
    Wonderful.
  • 01:32:18
    Thank you, Councilmember Wonsley.
  • 01:32:19
    Just to clarify, are you bringing an amendment to number 38?
  • 01:32:23
    That's correct.
  • 01:32:25
    So here's my suggestion then.
  • 01:32:30
    Let's hold this so that we can just get it amended.
  • 01:32:33
    We don't have to do an additional motion to reconsider.
  • 01:32:35
    And we'll pick up right here.
  • 01:32:37
    And I'm not seeing any further discussion on this item.
  • 01:32:42
    So laying this over until this evening.
  • 01:32:45
    And here's what I want.
  • 01:32:46
    We have a new number 39
  • 01:33:02
    in discussions with the legislative department.
  • 01:33:06
    We have a new number 40 offered by council member Chowdhury.
  • 01:33:11
    We have a revision to number 11 and number 12 that was passed out and that's just accommodating an additional change that was flagged by the administration.
  • 01:33:23
    And then finally, I think there's a couple of additional revisions
  • 01:33:29
    to two amendments that authors have made me aware of.
  • 01:33:34
    So that's a total of one, two, three, four, five, six, seven items that we need to take up.
  • 01:33:40
    I want to give people some time because I know COW is going to run really long today and it's very possible we roll right from COW to the public hearing.
  • 01:33:48
    So I want to adjourn this meeting.
  • 01:33:50
    We're going to obviously make a motion to pass everything over to the
  • 01:33:54
    to Council for this evening.
  • 01:33:57
    And after the public hearing concludes in our Council meeting tonight, we'll take up the remaining items in the order I've outlined.
  • 01:34:04
    So with that, Mr.
  • 01:34:07
    Clerk, I make a motion to send everything up to the Council, correct?
  • 01:34:14
    So I'll make that motion and ask for a second.
  • 01:34:17
    Second.
  • 01:34:18
    Wonderful.
  • 01:34:19
    And all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.
• • Kristyn AndersonCity Attorney
  • 01:34:23
    Aye.
• • Aisha Chughtai
  • 01:34:23
    Those opposed say nay.
  • 01:34:24
    Any abstentions?
  • 01:34:26
    The ayes have it.
  • 01:34:27
    That motion carries.
  • 01:34:28
    I will see you all tonight.
  • 01:34:30
    And seeing no objections, we stand adjourned.
  • 01:34:36
    Please, yes, bring your binders.
  • 01:34:39
    Oh, that's right, they can stay.
• • Elliott Payne
  • 01:34:41
    Never mind, you can leave your binders.
  • 01:34:45
    Council.
• • 01:35:29
    and the City Council.